Hi brothers and sisters and many thanks for organising such a useful tool of communication on a subject which needs some form of order in the chaos that surrounds it.

I have been interested in Freemasonry for over 20 years now and was almost initiated into the grand lodge of Freemasonry in Queen Street London UK.

I pulled out at the last minute through fear of having to give a speech to a group of people who I have never met.
Now I don’t think this was part of any initiation ceremony so I hope I am not breaking any rules by mentioning this however if I am please remove my post.

I went into this lodge and spoke to a well presented black gentleman who was wearing a ring with the square and compass on it. Later he contacted me and introduced me to two members of a lodge within the grand lodge.

They visited me at home and seemed like good men.

I had a date set where i was to attend and give a speech or toast and thank the two men concerned for welcoming me into Freemasonry.

One of the Freemasons told me a story about his son and that he gave an amazing speech on his initiation. This did not help the nerves i already had before he told me this.

Well anyway I did not attend and ended up giving some lame excuse for not being able to come. I felt defeated as my heart was telling me to not fear it and just go with it.

You see the problem is that I read so much on Freemasonry and all the negative things I had read started surfacing.

I hope I am not being inappropriate her but I may as well jump in at the deep end and talk about the connection between Freemasonry and Lucifer.

Now to many masons or those interested in masonry you may have heard or read some of Albert Pike’s material on Morals and Dogma. It clearly states that Lucifer is the god of Freemasonry, to further amplify this I delved into Theosophy quite heavily and noted that many theosophists past and present associated the light or the light bringer with freemasonry.

Having been brought up as quite a religious child alarm bells were constantly ringing in my conscience.

I don’t know what the connection is between the two or why Lucifer is even mentioned as being the god of freemasonry but if this off putting bit of information didn’t exist and if it wasn’t from such connected and credible sources I just may have taken the plunge on that very day.

Now I don’t know much but what i do know is that god’s adversary is Lucifer and I really would love to become a mason but with this hanging over freemasonry from my point of view I will always remain sceptical and doubtful if joining freemasonry is the right thing to do.

This is my first post and I aim to stick around and learn a lot more on the topic from those of you that are in the craft.

If one of you would be so kind as to address the connection between to two I would be most appreciative.

Peace and blessings.
Antonio.

Many thanks for your reply.

It is not that i believe to easily. These are Albert Pike’s own words. “Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay (Jehovah) is also God.”

Now i know the bible states that Lucifer is the god of this world but it also states that Lucifer is not good.

I appreciate you trying to clear the matter up and please do not think i am hear to push buttons as i am not. I am trying to make sense of this particular aspect that troubles me.

Peace and blessings,
Antonio.

To answer your question, i honestly can not remember the name of the lodge this was something i went through a good 10 plus years ago.

Hi Mike,

Many thanks for providing the link you did.
I read it but the OP seemed to have a bone to pick with Freemasonry.
I don’t.

I am sincerely curious. I would simply like to know why there is so much references to Lucifer.
If Freemasonry is not associated with Lucifer or Satan then why are the two linked in so many credible writings?
I suppose this would have been a better original question.

Regarding the lodge information, you are free to believe that which you wish however i have no reason to lie.
My question would be why the interest?

If it is that important to you i can have a hunt around for the letter i was sent. I am sure the name of the lodge would be on there.

We are ultimately meant to be brothers why there is so much suspicion in the tone of your words is beyond me. I am merely a seeker of knowledge. Please do not take my questions personally if that is what you have done. Otherwise forgive me assumptions.

Peace and blessings
Antonio.

Mike Martin - 16 March 2010 07:14 PM

Theosophist - 16 March 2010 07:01 PM

It is not that i believe to easily. These are Albert Pike’s own words. “Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay (Jehovah) is also God.”

Now you’re mixing your quotes! These are words employed by Leo Taxil (not Albert Pike) in his famous hoax.

Theosophist - 16 March 2010 07:01 PM

Now i know the bible states that Lucifer is the god of this world but it also states that Lucifer is not good

I’d be quite interested to know where?

Theosophist - 16 March 2010 07:01 PM

I appreciate you trying to clear the matter up and please do not think i am hear to push buttons as i am not. I am trying to make sense of this particular aspect that troubles me.

Unfortunately, I’m not so sure! I obviously will give you the benefit of the doubt but you don’t appear to have bothered looking around the Net other than at sites which we describe as “anti-Masonic” because that’s the only place you will find this kind of material.

Mike

Ok without approaching any form of semantics i can quote sources that refer to “Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay (Jehovah) is also God. As being directly written by Albert Pick. In saying this i think we could potentially go round and round on the matter so lets agree to differ.

Regarding the part of the bible which points to Lucifer being the god of this world (and this may require some thought and perhaps further research) please see the following passage from 2 Corinthians 4:4 (King James Version)

4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

I won’t comment on the last part of your text if this is ok with you?

Peace and blessings,
Antonio.

Ok without approaching any form of semantics i can quote sources that refer to “Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay (Jehovah) is also God. As being directly written by Albert Pick. In saying this i think we could potentially go round and round on the matter so lets agree to differ.

Hello Antonio,

A source that claims that Pike wrote the above is hardly proof that Pike did so. If you have a reference to a work of Pikes wherein this is written that is a different matter and I encourage you to provide it.

Theosophist-

You need to some reading on the likes of Leo Taxil and Eliphas Levi. Interestingly, the drawing of the goat-headed devil so commonly associated with Freemasonry was the work of Eliphas Levi. Its strange that so many misunderstanding, far right wing religious groups who also happen to be opposed to Freemasonry use that same exact image when surely there must be more pictures of Satan out there. Ah, but they dont fit so neatly within the confines of the five-pointed star used by the Order of the Eastern Star.

Its amazing to me that more than a century later Taxil and Levi are still pulling the wool over people’s eyes and serving as the sole reason why many people dont become Freemasons. Taxil made a great deal of money on his hoax connection between Masons and Lucifer, and then at the end of his life made even more money trotting around the world giving talks about how he’d made it all up.

I encourage you to read a relatively new book called the Pilgrim’s Path: Freemsonry and the Religious Right. It should settle many of the misunderstandings that so much of anti-Mason labors under and which inadvertantly drives so many away from Freemasonry who would otherwise have been quite happy within the Craft. 

Do you really think Norman Vincent Peale would have been a member of a satan worshipping cult?

Antonio, two points I want to reply to.

First, as to a prospective member having to make a toast or speech. We don’t do that here in the USA, but it might be part of the customs in England, which have more formal social customs than we do. Fortunately, we have English masons who post on this Forum who can reassure you on this point.

Secondly, regarding Lucifer.  Bro. Martin has already pointed out to you that this claim regarding Albert Pike and Freemasons worshipping Lucifer is a complete and deliberate lie. It was published by Leo Taxil in the late 19th century and was immediately seized upon by every anti-mason on earth, they being delighted to have such great ammunition to use against the Fraternity. They got to work publishing and embellishing it at once. When, about 20 years later, Taxil confessed, and published his confession in writing, that the whole thing was a hoax perpretated by him, that didn’t stop the anti-masons from spreading the lie; they are still doing it. If you don’t believe our flat assertions, use any search engine to find out about Leo Taxil.

Many thanks all.

I will look into the information provided and post back tomorrow once i am back from work.

Peace and blessings,
Antonio.

Antonio

I want to thank you for your questions. And the members of the Forum who have done their best to answer you.

There is no connection whatever between Lucifer and Freemasonry. Period. I would like to move on from this.

The members here have gone beyond what I have done to try to assure you that what you are trying to suggest about Freemasonry is untrue.

Freemasonry has a long and varied history and many men in many different appendant bodies have written books, articles, and treatises about their thoughts on the the Craft. This does not make them true.

What is true is what you are reading here. Directly from Freemasons.

Just so you know, there are millions and millions of good Christians who are Masons. There are millions from other faiths as well—and those who believe in God but are trying to find their path.

Freemasonry is a place where men who believe in God gather to have fellowship, learn how to become better men, and practice charity. But we check religion at th door.

That’s it.

Both Brother Martin and Brother Young gave you the best explanations you are going to get here.

In terms of Brother Martin’s “reaction” to your posts, you should know that he donates a good deal of his time trying to help people learn about Freemasonry and learn how to become a member. But he does not suffer fools lightly, and those who believe the conspiracy theories or the rantings of religious zealots seem to find great please in attacking Freemasonry on this Site.

With all due respect, anyone who does so is simply foolish.

If you are one of these people, (and I am not saying you are) anything anyone says here is not going to change your mind.

If you are indeed looking to become a Freemason, I hope the information on this Site and the answers given will help you make a decision.

Freemasonry is not for everyone. You have to come to it under your own free will.

I want to thank everyone for their time on this thread. I hope the answers here help anyone in their search.

But I don’t want to beat a dead horse any more, so I am going to close this thread.

Antonio, I do thank you for your decorum and respect on the Forum, but if you have any other questions on another matter, please feel free to post them on another thread.

Any further discussion of this topic will be deleted.

Bob Heruska
Forum Administrator