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What is the differnce betwwen Masonic imagery and santanic imagery
Posted: 05 April 2012 09:27 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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A lot of people accuse music artist, poets, painters, movie makers, and fictional authors of using illuminati imagery in their work which critics end up calling it satanic imagery which critics end up calling it masonic imagery. Freemasons have stated over and over again that they do not worship the devil, even though critics have protest in saying that your own members have said you guys worship the devil (Albert Pike), and that the images and symbols that you guys use are very evil and sinister which they call satanic imagery. Since you guys say that you don’t worship devil, how do you, not any critics, but you guys distinct satanic imagery from masonic imagery?

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Posted: 05 April 2012 09:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Show me where Albert Pike said Freemasons worship the devil.
While you’re searching for that (hint: you won’t find it because he never said it) try googling “Taxil Hoax”.

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Posted: 05 April 2012 10:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Also the illuminati doesn’t exist but if they do they are not part of freemasonry

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Posted: 06 April 2012 12:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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I don’t believe thay answers my question on difference?

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Posted: 06 April 2012 12:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Images and symbols are given there meaning from people.  A stop sign is a symbol of stopping not becasue it has the power to stop a vehicle but because people see it as a sign to stop their vehicle.  I will pose this question as an example what is the difference between Christian and Homosexual symbols?  Being they both use the rainbow.  I as a Mason I know the symbols are not satanic because of the history I have bee told about them.  I can also assure you I do not worship the devil.

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Posted: 06 April 2012 07:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Kueen - 06 April 2012 12:12 AM

I don’t believe thay answers my question on difference?

Your question was very clear.  I think you asked how we “distinct” them.  I’ll assume that’s not what you meant, since you can’t distinct something.  Distinct isn’t a verb. ;)

However, we do know what our own symbols mean to us, and that while certain symbols might be used elsewhere, we cannot control, nor do we care, how they are used.  Please try to understand symbolism by nature.  Just because it is used in a certain way in one place, that doesn’t mean it means the same thing somewhere else.  I’ll pull out this old gem that I wrote in a previous thread to help illustrate my point.

I find it odd that people have such difficulty comprehending that one symbol can mean so different things.  I often use this example to make that point.  Guys on here have probably heard it way too many times, but it is effective in giving an example one symbol meaning many things.

Every time you see an X, do you assume it means the same thing?

Example: You approach a railroad crossing and see a yellow sign with an X on it.  Someone tells you that the sign means railroad crossing. 
Now….someone writes you a letter and signs in with Xs and Os at the bottom.  Does this mean that they are siging the letter with a railroad crossing? 
Or how about if you look at a buried treasure map.  Does it mean that there is a railroad crossing on the map, or does this X in this case mean that is where the treasure is? 
Or how about an adult video, rated X.  Does this mean that the video is about railroad crossings?
Was the movie X-men about a group of railroad workers? 
In the Roman number system, did they mean one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, railroad crossing, eleven, twelve?

Also, the arrow as a symbol, does it only mean one thing?  No.  An arrow can represent power, war, speed, the rays of the sun, as well as represent gods such as Artemis, Rudra the hindu weather god, Eros, Cupid, male power, etc.

A bat as a symbol in medieval Europe represented evil spirits, but in the East it is a symbol of good fortune.

Even the Swastika, which makes people immediately think of Nazis, is much more innocent in its origin and meaning.  It is an ancient symbol from Egypt, India, and China.  It has represented may things including directionality, arms and legs, and harmony.  Nowadays it is taken to mean racism.

I could go on and on, but please don’t make the mistake of thinking a symbol in one place means the same as the same symbol somewhere else.

To further assist you, if you are looking for meaningful and specific answers, please try to narrow and focus your questions into more manageable subjects, rather than broad and sweeping questions.  Asking questions that are to broad is like asking “why are we here?” or “what is the meaning of life?”  One could go on for years on such subjects.  Start by asking the basics, even start by reading our frequently asked questions page by clicking the link at the top of this page.

I’m perfectly willing to help you understand, but you first need to let go of your existing misconceptions and understand what Freemasonry is before you can understand larger Masonic concepts.

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Dan

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Posted: 06 April 2012 07:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Great answer Dan. Never get tired of seeing it because it works so well.

Now, I have a symbol question for you: -+ or -> ? Only one way to know for certain :)

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Posted: 06 April 2012 02:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Wow the moderator doesn’ t like me guys. You didn’ t have to so harsh on me. First I.use the distinct wrong for you and I could have sworn you could distinct things. And then my question was to broad? You guess sure like to be on the attack, all I wanted was my question answered, so thank you….Oh you disniguish things my bad, but for rel that had to be pointed out by u? I wasn’t calling you guys devil worshipers or it wasn’t my intent to. I was just giving n example of what crtitics usually say about you guys. I acually may never know that for sure but that wasn’t something I was trying to say, so I apopgize for that. But I thought my question would be easy for you guys to answer. I would have asked if there was going to be agression
?

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Posted: 06 April 2012 02:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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I don’t think our moderator has an opinion about you one way or the other. He was pointing out a grammatical error on your part, nothing more. Your question was very broad and rambling. Your spelling and use of the language are very rudimentary. These are not attacks, simply observations.

We have tried to show you that symbols are used by different groups to mean different things. A perfect example is Dan’s explanation of the letter “X”. What some see as evil is usually because that’s what they are looking for. When I see the “All-seeing Eye” I see that God watches us all. Some see the single eye of DJall but that’s not what a Mason uses that symbol to represent. The only other symbol in Masonry that is frequently confused with something satanic is the five pointed star symbol that is used by the Order of the Eastern Star. There is nothing satanic about it to a Mason or OES member.

I believe we have answered your question and treated you with respect.

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Posted: 06 April 2012 02:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Kueen - 05 April 2012 09:27 PM

A lot of people accuse music artist, poets, painters, movie makers, and fictional authors of using illuminati imagery in their work which critics end up calling it satanic imagery which critics end up calling it masonic imagery. Freemasons have stated over and over again that they do not worship the devil, even though critics have protest in saying that your own members have said you guys worship the devil (Albert Pike), and that the images and symbols that you guys use are very evil and sinister which they call satanic imagery. Since you guys say that you don’t worship devil, how do you, not any critics, but you guys distinct satanic imagery from masonic imagery?

Kueen - The Pike reference is from his mammoth 860 page work titled Morals and Dogma of the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite and does mention Lucifer, but not in the sense that it means the Devil or Satan.  This is because the quote is taken out of context and is often used by anti-masonic conspiracy theorists as proof that we are devil worshipers.  He is using Lucifer in the classic Latin which means “Light Bearer” and is a reference to the morning star otherwise known as the planet Venus.  We distinguish masonic imagery from Satanic imagery by knowing what our symbols mean and how we use them.  As Dan points out in his explanation above, symbols have different meanings, how you interpret them is based on your understanding of them.  Another symbol used in Masonry is the Skull and crossed bones.  Your first reaction might be, well then you are pirates because the pirate flag is the skull and bones.  That would be where you are wrong.  In masonry it is not a reference to something evil, but quite the contrary.

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Posted: 06 April 2012 03:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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I’m sorry if you took offense.  I meant none.  I don’t dislike you or anyone unless I have good reason to, and you haven’t given me a reason to dislike you.  I was simply pointing out that your questions were difficult to answer for a number of reasons, and then gave you suggestions as to how you could make your questions more easy to answer.  I thought I was helping.  Sorry if you felt attacked.

It sounds like maybe English is not your first language.  If that is the case, I’m very sorry but it still doesn’t hurt to correct you, as grammar is one of the seven liberal arts and sciences that Masons value.

So….heed my suggestions above, focus your questions and start from the beginning, and we’ll be happy to help you.  I guarantee you that you will learn something.

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Posted: 06 April 2012 09:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Well moderator that really was a kick in the head because Emglish is my first and only language! My people have been here sice your masonic infulece brought my people here as slaves when you decided to rob Native Americans of thier land, another part of my ethnic background. Now I feel disrespected. I guess the great thing about being a mason is that you can say whatever you knowing you’re untouchable because all government puts you above the law! Yes you did strike a chord with me this time and the last time. I can’ t believe i was even thinking I would acually be getting any respect from any of you, beside Sr. Member you have acually been kind to me but now I question it.

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Posted: 06 April 2012 09:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Alright clearly we misunderstand each other, so again I apologize.  Can we start over?  I’m really not trying to be mean, and I’m sorry if it seems that I am. I want to help you understand or else I wouldn’t be here.

Masonry had nothing to do with slave trade, native American genocide/relocation etc.  Also, I have no pull in or protection from government. That is nonsense people blindly regurgitate after watching too many YouTube videos. How can an organization forbidden to discuss politics have anything to do with government?  Like I’ve said before, as it appears that you are missing some facts about our Fraternity, how about if we start there, make sure you understand the basics, and we can go from there. Is that fair?

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Friendship Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Wilmington, MA
The Lodge of the Royal Secret - Boston, MA
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Posted: 07 April 2012 02:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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Kueen - there is no disrespect intended ... but you have also to remember that much of the language structure we learned as we grew up has altered ... and hence the misunderstanding. To ‘distinct’ something might mean something these days - but it’s not something that was in the vocabulary we grew up with; hence the misunderstanding. Likewise, to “disrespect someone” is new ... but it’s understandable, as the structure previously was “..treat someone with disrespect”.  It’s just the way language has changed over the generations.

So hopefully you can understand now that Dan was only trying to understand what you were asking ... and his response was actually one copied from answers to similar questions where -again- there was misunderstandings and assumptions that symbols mean the same everywhere ... the example is just a way of showing that assumption to be false.

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Posted: 07 April 2012 09:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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I do not believe any disrespect was intended from any of the members here. Also to clear up a few things; A Mason is expected to obey all laws of their country, not be above them; You cannot be a Mason and have a criminal record. Also if the Government puts Masons above everyone else; I wouldn’t have to pay thousands of dollars to the IRS when my “Tax Return” shows up :P (and no I’m not wealthy or even close).

As for the misunderstanding of your native tongue. I am in my late 20’s and can understand what you meant but I can see how some people may not translate it as easily. I grew up with the internet, where the written word was shortened in favor of speed of communication but I could see that people who did not grow up with computers and where virtual communication did not exist could confuse a person who did not have perfect grammar with someone from a different country. I speak German, albeit poorly, and when I write to my friends in Germany in their native tongue they get a few chuckles out of it because of all the grammatical mistakes.

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Posted: 07 April 2012 12:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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I’VE had some time to think about and moderator maybe you didn’ t mean any harm but apart of me still feels their was some provking involved so that’s way I had that reaction. I still don’ t believe that my question was broad and I ask a very simple one. Maybe the antcipation of my question was a little too long or felt unnessary to you, but because I ask the question you got offened and the need to provoke me some. I’m going to accept the apology for now but it will remain in the back of my mind for a while. Sr. Member that you for your words as well. You’ve probably have known the Moderator for a while so it’s understandable to be at his defense. Moderator, even though you have made me upset I never got a chance to tell you that I acually liked the example you provided for me. I’m acaually going to be using the example for when I defend masons at school. The reason why I ask the question to began with was to defend you guys. Not that it probably means aything to you now or ever, but I’m the one in my classes, when it’s brought up try to defend you guys. After seeing a few documentaries you guys have done with the History network I started to look at you guys different. I’m still reserved about you guys, but after seeing a few documentaries I started to think maybe they are not the green monsters everyone tries to make them out to be, even though I still don’t have the whole picture I do have some of the picture. And now I have a little more fight in me when it comes to understanding how to explain the symbols. Newcomer thanx for being at my defense about on explaining myself. It’s good to know that some sort of gets my feelings. Moderator you say that I’m missing some facts about the establishment and the basics. We can start over for now but like I said I’m still thinking about the last comments but I’m willing to let it go for now.

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