My husband and I would like to join the Masons (of course the male and female fraternities respectively). My husband’s father was a Mason for many years however he was required to leave several years ago. We would like to approach some friends of ours, however we are respectful of their reputations. Since the incident that required my father-in-law to leave was not a result of his direct actions, I am hopeful this will not automatically taint our own reputations (and equally it had nothing to do with us). We do not want to put ourselves forward in the name of our friends however and ‘show them up’ should we be deemed, for one reason or another, as not in an appropriate position to join. Therefore I have several questions which I would like to ask regarding suitability without jeopardising anyone’s reputation. Of course if you prefer not to answer, I truly respect your wishes. Equally, I sincerely hope I have not caused offence by contacting a male fraternity, being female as this was definitely not my intention.
The first question I have is whether we need to own our own property and to have a business in order to join? Secondly whether we can petition for acceptance, before having a profession?
We should be able to by our first home by October of this year, but of course a first home for many is not a dream home, therefore will this be enough? I understand that Masonry is a commitment and an ongoing development of oneself, therefore should we be seeking consideration this year (after we have our house), or in several year’s time when we are ‘better’ people (with professions and/or a business/ better quality housing etc). In which case, how will we know when we are good enough, so as not to jeopardise anyone’s reputation? Finally, in the instance that our petitions were rejected, what impact would that have on our friends who had put us forward?
Thank you kindly for taking the time to consider my questions. If you would prefer to redirect me to a female fraternity, I quite understand. If by chance I do receive a response to my post, many of you may suggest speaking to my father-in-law, however he is a good man who will not speak of the Masons to non-Masons.
I am no authority on Masonry at all (and know nothing of OES), but I’ll attempt (albeit poorly) to answer some of your questions regarding Masonry.
Your husbands relation to someone who is no longer in the craft (for any reason) should not in any way reflect on his character or reputation. I say should not because if he is petitioning the lodge where his father was a member and there was someone who thought ill of his father, then I cannot say he would not take his own feelings in to account when balloting.
As to owning property, I do not believe that is a requirement but I cannot speak for all jurisdictions. That would be a question you would have to ask the lodge your husband plans on petitioning. Your vocations should not be of any real concern. There is a (small*) yearly dues fee and the only financial requirement is that the dues should not be a burden on your family. (* The dues fee is set by the lodge, that will be a question you will have to ask them).
I highly doubt your friends reputations would be tarnished if you asked them. I am assuming they are masons and they will tell you if they would vouch for your husband. If your husbands petition is rejected it shouldn’t damage anyone’s reputation. If he is rejected, most jurisdictions will allow you to petition again in 6 months to a year.
If you tell us which State you are in, perhaps someone from that jurisdiction can answer your questions in more detail. Also, I can say with great confidence that you are not offending anyone here in the least :).
My husband and I would like to join the Masons (of course the male and female fraternities respectively). My husband’s father was a Mason for many years however he was required to leave several years ago. We would like to approach some friends of ours, however we are respectful of their reputations. Since the incident that required my father-in-law to leave was not a result of his direct actions, I am hopeful this will not automatically taint our own reputations (and equally it had nothing to do with us). We do not want to put ourselves forward in the name of our friends however and ‘show them up’ should we be deemed, for one reason or another, as not in an appropriate position to join. Therefore I have several questions which I would like to ask regarding suitability without jeopardising anyone’s reputation. Of course if you prefer not to answer, I truly respect your wishes. Equally, I sincerely hope I have not caused offence by contacting a male fraternity, being female as this was definitely not my intention.
The first question I have is whether we need to own our own property and to have a business in order to join? Secondly whether we can petition for acceptance, before having a profession?
We should be able to by our first home by October of this year, but of course a first home for many is not a dream home, therefore will this be enough? I understand that Masonry is a commitment and an ongoing development of oneself, therefore should we be seeking consideration this year (after we have our house), or in several year’s time when we are ‘better’ people (with professions and/or a business/ better quality housing etc). In which case, how will we know when we are good enough, so as not to jeopardise anyone’s reputation? Finally, in the instance that our petitions were rejected, what impact would that have on our friends who had put us forward?
Thank you kindly for taking the time to consider my questions. If you would prefer to redirect me to a female fraternity, I quite understand. If by chance I do receive a response to my post, many of you may suggest speaking to my father-in-law, however he is a good man who will not speak of the Masons to non-Masons.
Many thanks once again for your time.
Well let me start by saying welcome to the forum. You will find that the criteria for joining Freemasonry is slightly different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. That being said Freemasonry also dose not regard the outer or material man when considering him as a candidate, but the inner man. So owning your own home or owning your own business is not a requirement. They will explain during the process of petitioning and investigation that they do require a member to be able to contribute his time and monetarily without material injury to himself or family. What that means is that if in paying dues and attending events and fundraisers will be a burden on your families finances, then maybe you should consider waiting to petition(apply).
As for your issue with your father-in-law, all I can say is that in the US the ‘sins’ of the father are not supposed to be visited on the son (or daughter for that matter). Not knowing the details of the reason your father-in-law left the fraternity it’s hard to say, but I would guess that them members would be open to your husband.
The best actions you can take are for your husband to talk to a member of the Lodge and voice his desire to join. I am sure they will advise him properly.
Once he becomes a Mason, you should look in to the local Chapter of the OES or other bodies open to the ladies.
So let me stress that being a homeowner or business owner does NOT make someone better. I know several who are one or the other or both and not necessarily someone I would propose if they asked me for a petition.
My husband and I would like to join the Masons (of course the male and female fraternities respectively). My husband’s father was a Mason for many years however he was required to leave several years ago. We would like to approach some friends of ours, however we are respectful of their reputations. Since the incident that required my father-in-law to leave was not a result of his direct actions, I am hopeful this will not automatically taint our own reputations (and equally it had nothing to do with us). We do not want to put ourselves forward in the name of our friends however and ‘show them up’ should we be deemed, for one reason or another, as not in an appropriate position to join. Therefore I have several questions which I would like to ask regarding suitability without jeopardising anyone’s reputation. Of course if you prefer not to answer, I truly respect your wishes. Equally, I sincerely hope I have not caused offence by contacting a male fraternity, being female as this was definitely not my intention.
The first question I have is whether we need to own our own property and to have a business in order to join? Secondly whether we can petition for acceptance, before having a profession?
We should be able to by our first home by October of this year, but of course a first home for many is not a dream home, therefore will this be enough? I understand that Masonry is a commitment and an ongoing development of oneself, therefore should we be seeking consideration this year (after we have our house), or in several year’s time when we are ‘better’ people (with professions and/or a business/ better quality housing etc). In which case, how will we know when we are good enough, so as not to jeopardise anyone’s reputation? Finally, in the instance that our petitions were rejected, what impact would that have on our friends who had put us forward?
Thank you kindly for taking the time to consider my questions. If you would prefer to redirect me to a female fraternity, I quite understand. If by chance I do receive a response to my post, many of you may suggest speaking to my father-in-law, however he is a good man who will not speak of the Masons to non-Masons.
Many thanks once again for your time.
Mainstream Masonry is male-only. There are a few female and mixed “masonic lodges” in the world, but neither you nor your husband would be allowed in any “Regular” lodge anywhere in the world if you were to join one of these “clandestine” lodges. If your husband chooses to join the world’s oldest and largest fraternity, there are several opportunities for you to participate. There is the Order of the Eastern Star, and several other women’s groups for ladies related to Masons.
You absolutely don’t need to own a home or have any material wealth beyond that needed to afford the dues of the lodge without harming your family. Masonry is concerned with the person within, not their wealth or status in society. As evidence of this, Masons used to all wear white gloves to meetings so nobody could tell a man’s station in life by the roughness of his hands. Today, only the officers in the lodge continue this tradition. We have a phrase, “We meet on the level and part on the square.” Which means we meet in the spirit of equality and part in the spirit of virtue and brotherly love toward one another.
You also have nothing to fear from the past transgressions of members of your family. Let me put it to you this way, my mother’s maiden name is Capone. Yes, I am distantly related to “Big Al”. It’s a bit of a joke among my friends. So long as your husband’s record is clean and he can provide character references, I see no issues with his petitioning a lodge. If a Mason is willing to sponsor your husband, that goes a long way toward the rest of the lodge welcoming him.
We are not a rich men’s club. We are simply a fraternity where morality and friendship is fostered and grown. When I was a Master Mason for only a couple of months, one of the men in my lodge who I respect most asked me what I thought about being part of the Craft. I told him it was the second best decision of my life. He asked what the best decision was and I pointed at my wedding ring.
Firstly I would like to thank each of you for providing such thorough and warm responses to my post so quickly. We have already made contact with a couple of friends who have given us some ‘pointers’ as to what we may need to think about before deciding to seek petition (I say us, but really I am referring to my husband since he will be the ‘seeker’ as this particular fraternity is male). By ‘pointers’ I do not mean tips! I simply mean that it appears there are many issues to consider with regard to image/ reputation however this may well be to do with cultural differences. From the information you have kindly given me, it does not appear that we would not be given consideration on the basis of wealth status alone. Also I am glad to know that my father-in-law’s circumstances should not immediately dampen our hopes of joining. Windrider thanks for sharing that note on your lineage, it is also reassuring.
We will be meeting with several friends of friends (who are Masons), who do not yet know my husband, in a couple of weeks. This was recommended to us in order for my husband to get to know a wider group (or perhaps better put: for the wider group to get to know my husband). From there we are hoping that my husband may be invited along to a meeting or event. From what I now gather, it appears that this is not the petitioning process itself, merely the lead up to it (an inquiry period I suppose?). I appreciate you clearing up the matter of damaging reputations, as we would be mortified to think we could do so should we not be ‘ready’ just yet (not that anything we have done should be considered damning at all!). Furthermore it is great to know that we should not be afraid to ask our friends (who are Masons) questions for fear of getting them into trouble as it were.
Finally, it seems common practice to join a local lodge, which proposes another problem for us: my husband’s friends and connections are not in this country. We will be visiting his home country in a couple of weeks (with reference to the above), but will return to the UK where we live thereafter and where we do not know any Masons. If I may ask one further question: what would you recommend we do about that?
Many thanks once again for all your help and for taking the time to reply to me. I have found your responses to be very helpful and was very pleasantly surprised by your friendly manor. I appreciate your references to the female groups, which in due course I will look towards. The responses I have received from you have been contrary to what I had imagined I may receive. You all seem like very personable men and I am grateful for the advice you have so kindly given me.
Finally, it seems common practice to join a local lodge, which proposes another problem for us: my husband’s friends and connections are not in this country. We will be visiting his home country in a couple of weeks (with reference to the above), but will return to the UK where we live thereafter and where we do not know any Masons. If I may ask one further question: what would you recommend we do about that?
Very interesting question. While it is difficult to give an absolutely certain answer because we do not know what country/jurisdiction you are referring to, I can try to give an answer as to how it would be approached in my jurisdiction.
If someone approached my lodge about joining, but they lived in another country, they would not be successful in their attempt. We make Masons so that they can be active participants in the lodge. Why would someone make a man a Mason so that he can just move away. Just being initiated as a Mason is just the first step. Actively participating in the lodge is what really matters in Masonry. How can your husband actively participate in lodge and go to meetings every month if he is in a different country.
Are you aware that if you live in the UK, there are lodges in the UK as well? There is no need to go to a different country to join.
I’m afraid after reading some of your questions here that you and your husband might not be fully comprehending what Freemasonry is, so let me ask you this: Why does your husband want to be a Freemason and why are YOU the one who is doing the legwork on this?
Sorry for the questions, but you are asking about a very specific scenario here and we don’t know enough details about you or your husband to be able to give you the most correct answer. Ask your husband why he seeks to become a Freemason. Ask yourself why YOU want your husband to be a Freemason. I’m interested to hear what it is you think we are and do.
You may not be aware that Freemasonry originated in England and that there are very many lodges all over the UK (England, Scotland, and Ireland have separate Grand Lodges). If your husband joins a lodge in the USA, he should have no trouble affiliating with a lodge in the UK. Or he could wait to join there. However, this may pose a problem for you, as I don’t believe the Eastern Star exists in the UK. But I believe there are female lodges which you could join, but your husband could not. Just something to think about.
ReYoung, thank you. Yes I am aware that Freemasonry originated in the UK. I registered my interest around six months ago on UGLE’s ‘contact us’ page but unfortunately received no response.
Dan, this draws me to answering one of your questions. Since we do not know any Masons in the UK, I imagine it would be difficult for my husband to join as there would be no one to vouch for him (and I could only join a female fraternity if my husband was a member of a male fraternity) . On the other hand he has plenty of contacts in his home country but as you have pointed out, it probably won’t be feasible to join there at the moment anyway if we do not live there.
In answer to your question regarding why I rather than my husband am asking all the questions, this is simply because I have my own questions. I’m sure my husband will ask many questions when he meets with his friends also. As already mentioned, we had some worries about possibly jeopardising our friends’ positions, which is why when stumbling across this forum, I decided to ask you rather than them.
With regard to why my husband wants to join, I will let him answer that as he will have his own reasons. I can only tell you my reasons for wanting to join which are based upon the ideas that we both have about what Masonry is and involves. As you may appreciate, at this stage I am not certain exactly what is involved, hence the endless number of questions you have been so patient to try to answer!
As far as I imagine, Freemasonry is neither a society nor a religion, however it does contain elements of both. I understand the Old Testament is used which makes me think that Masonry has its own interpretations of the lessons contained within it. I suppose it uses those lessons to form better men, with a different way of thinking about many areas of life. Thereby creating a society of like-minded thinkers, who have a similar set of beliefs and understanding that they use in order for a better society to be in existence. I imagine that until the true meaning of those lessons is fully understood, one cannot be prepared to progress further. I have also heard (of course it could be hearsay) that Masons help fellow Masons. I will give an example to illustrate the way I think this works: I need some business advice as I’m just starting out, a fellow Mason gives me that advice. Later on he is looking for a place for his son to do work experience, so I give him a placement. Please do feel free to correct me in all of my inaccuracies as these are only my assumptions based on a small amount of research.
Based on those ideas and a desire to understand my place in the world combined with the desire to be a better person, I have decided to enquire about joining. Of course it is difficult to know what Masonry explicitly entails unless you ask. I suppose that leads me onto another question: how do I know what it entails and if it is right for me if the information is not readily available? I imagine this is all part of the learning process, but in order to be accepted, one’s reasons for joining need to be clear. This means I’m back to the question of how do I know what it entails?
Again thanks for all your help and apologies for the exhaustive list of questions!
ReYoung, thank you. Yes I am aware that Freemasonry originated in the UK. I registered my interest around six months ago on UGLE’s ‘contact us’ page but unfortunately received no response.
Dan, this draws me to answering one of your questions. Since we do not know any Masons in the UK, I imagine it would be difficult for my husband to join as there would be no one to vouch for him (and I could only join a female fraternity if my husband was a member of a male fraternity) . On the other hand he has plenty of contacts in his home country but as you have pointed out, it probably won’t be feasible to join there at the moment anyway if we do not live there.
In answer to your question regarding why I rather than my husband am asking all the questions, this is simply because I have my own questions. I’m sure my husband will ask many questions when he meets with his friends also. As already mentioned, we had some worries about possibly jeopardising our friends’ positions, which is why when stumbling across this forum, I decided to ask you rather than them.
With regard to why my husband wants to join, I will let him answer that as he will have his own reasons. I can only tell you my reasons for wanting to join which are based upon the ideas that we both have about what Masonry is and involves. As you may appreciate, at this stage I am not certain exactly what is involved, hence the endless number of questions you have been so patient to try to answer!
As far as I imagine, Freemasonry is neither a society nor a religion, however it does contain elements of both. I understand the Old Testament is used which makes me think that Masonry has its own interpretations of the lessons contained within it. I suppose it uses those lessons to form better men, with a different way of thinking about many areas of life. Thereby creating a society of like-minded thinkers, who have a similar set of beliefs and understanding that they use in order for a better society to be in existence. I imagine that until the true meaning of those lessons is fully understood, one cannot be prepared to progress further. I have also heard (of course it could be hearsay) that Masons help fellow Masons. I will give an example to illustrate the way I think this works: I need some business advice as I’m just starting out, a fellow Mason gives me that advice. Later on he is looking for a place for his son to do work experience, so I give him a placement. Please do feel free to correct me in all of my inaccuracies as these are only my assumptions based on a small amount of research.
Based on those ideas and a desire to understand my place in the world combined with the desire to be a better person, I have decided to enquire about joining. Of course it is difficult to know what Masonry explicitly entails unless you ask. I suppose that leads me onto another question: how do I know what it entails and if it is right for me if the information is not readily available? I imagine this is all part of the learning process, but in order to be accepted, one’s reasons for joining need to be clear. This means I’m back to the question of how do I know what it entails?
Again thanks for all your help and apologies for the exhaustive list of questions!
You should read a wonderful book called “Walking with the Widow’s Son”. It is written by the wife of a Mason and will clear up a lot of your questions and concerns.
Your impression of Masonry is not correct. We do not provide business advice or employment for each other’s children. If these are the kinds of things you expect to get from your husband’s membership you will be disappointed. If these are the reasons your husband wishes to join, his petition will be rejected.
You asked what it entails. I know that every Mason would give you a different answer to that question because you get out of Masonry what you put into it. For me, Masonry gives me the comfort of knowing that wherever I travel I need only look for the Square and Compasses to find a friend and brother. Masonry provides me with the opportunity to learn about myself and what it means to be a good man. Being in the company of other good men and using our numbers to provide relief to those who need it.
I don’t expect to get a better job because I am a Mason. I do believe that the lessons of Masonry make me a better employee, a better husband, a better father, friend and man. Masonry took the good man I was and made me better.
What it entails is a commitment to learning and growing as a man among other good men. We are guided by the principals of Brotherly Love, Truth and Relief. We all have faith in the Grand Architect of the Universe and hope that our deeds will allow us a place in that temple not made with hands when our work is done. That’s the real secret of Masonry.
Thank you for your honesty. I very much appreciate you recommending the book to me, I will make a start on it this evening.
This forum has been very helpful to me and I am grateful for everyone’s input. So many of my questions have been answered clearly and I really have learnt a lot from this. Thanks again to all.
Sorry it’s been a bit longer to reply than intended; family illness intervened.
Now, UK.
First, I have to make it clear that the male and female versions of Freemasonry do not mix and no intervisiting is allowed ... except for social events. There is a form of co-masonry, but it is unrecognised by either organisation. The pure male and female versions will be able to visit their respective (recognised) lodges across the country and across the world. There is no recognised version of Eastern Star in the UK.
It is also for this reason that your enquiry to UGLE would have received no reply - because it did not originate from a man; you (personally) contacted the wrong organisation. If your husband had submitted the enquiry, it would have been forwarded to the Province local to you for follow up. I’m the contact for Cambridgeshire, so I can speak with some confidence on this.
The Provincial Secretary (or Assistant) would then ask for a bit about yourself - for nothing other than making sure you want to join for the right reasons and are eligible, and to decide which would be the right lodge for you. He would then put you in contact with the lodge secretary who would speak to you further and probably invite you to a social event. Probably a Ladies Night (a dinner dance) ... it’s a chance for the members to get to know you and for you to know them.
Once both sides have decided one way or the other (and assuming everything is ok), you would be given a Form to fill out (known in the ‘trade’ locally as a ‘Form P’) and everything progresses from there. There is no requirement to own your own property (I do), or business (I don’t); you only need to be able to afford to join and pay subs.
Unlike the US, once you are a member, you can join as many lodges as you can afford to, and wherever (in a recognised constitution) you want. The lodge you first join -your mother lodge- will be in the Province where you live or work - if you want to join a neighbouring Province, the Province where you live will be asked if they have any objection (just protocol).
I gather from your comments that your husband knows a number of masons in his native country ...? Assuming they belong to a recognised Constitution, there’s no harm in asking a couple of them to write a letter of recommendation.
As far as female Freemasonry in the UK is concerned, there are two women’s Grand Lodges. It’s fairly common for spouses/partners of the men to be members. They use the same ritual book and AFAIK, the same ‘secrets’. They just don’t mix except socially.
And the observation that windrider made regarding business holds true under EC; that’s one of the things that I, as the local contact for Cambridgeshire, would want to check before recommending you to a lodge.
If you want to know further, contact the Province local to where you live - search Google for -eg- Cambridgeshire masons, and you would find our website.
Firstly, I am sorry to hear about your family, my thoughts are with you. I truly appreciate your thorough response to all of my questions. The information you have given me has been very helpful indeed. Since you are from the UK, I respect your position, therefore this will be my last post so please do not feel the need to reply. I feel I have given a bad example re the job etc, which has unfortunately been misconstrued. I simply meant that I believe the Masons are a community of friends who help each other whenever they are able to. I did not mean explicitly employment and in hindsight I should have tried to use a better example than the one I gave. My husband and I are not seeking to gain any employment through joining. I have asked enough questions now and appreciate that it is not my place to enquire more, therefore I will hand over to my husband.
Thank you for the information re the women´s lodges and all of the insight on the UK specific to our situation.
I wish you well and would like to thank you once again for your help.
Caro - hey! ask away - I was only explaining why you didn’t receive a reply from UGLE.
And for what it’s worth I did actually understand what you meant about the mutual help - I was just mentioning that Masonry is not a ‘networking’ group.
