Also, how do you define this phrase about freemasonary that has cropped up time and again? It describes the blacklisting of people who claim they are victims to freemasonary. Blacklisting from jobs. False accusations and charges from police and general witchhunting of said victims because they may have a political belief or may have taken a freemason to court about something.
I am well aware you will say ‘it doesn’t happen’ but if so, please explain how this phrase came about and explain what you think it describes within Freemasonary.
The phrase “whiteglove treatment” is actually a military (not Masonic) term for a particularly rigourous inspection. I am suprised to see that you have come across it time and again in a Masonic context (in 20 years this is the first for me), this would tend to suggest that you are reading material from a common originator.
As to the usual conspiracy theories, give me names and addresses of these victims and I will investigate. However, I should point out that I have been making the same offer for 20 years and as yet have only been given one name and address of a real person. When I contacted her for details to begin an investigation she admitted that she didn’t actually know any Masons and that the story wasn’t true.
Thanks for the answers. While I am confident that the majority of masons are sound, I am of course referring to the ‘rot’ element as highlighted by the book ‘Inside the Brotherhood’ where ex Freemasons have spoken about malpractices that they or have seen others being involved in. Has anybody heard of the book at all?
Also, imagine that you had a political point of view that was unpopular with a certain freemason only to find that you are blacklisted from work. I would imagine it to be very difficult to complain about it being freemasonary because the victim wouldn’t know what freemason did the blacklisting as it would be done in secret. I have heard that this practice is rife in freemasonary.
Yeah - those of us in the UK are well aware of it. It’s summed up pretty well here: http://www.calodges.org/ncrl/m-short.html by the Grand Historian of the GL of Hawaii.
What many (certainly in the US I suspect) fail to realize, is that the ‘secrecy’ surrounding the Craft in the UK (which is what we’re talking about here), stems mainly from WWII.
Prior to the war, it was common for there to be parades; summons were published in the paper (still happens in Scotland I believe) and so on. Openness was everywhere you looked.
WWII is where everything changed. It is a matter of record that the first ‘inmate’ of the Nazi concentration camps were German Freemasons - and they were treated the same as the Jews - and (I hope!) you know what happened to them! It soon became clear that the Nazis were rounding up every Freemason they came across as they saw Freemasonry as being opposed to everything they stood for (all this has become clear since you understand), and that Masons would likely form the core of any Resistance movement. Probably a fair assessment.
When word filtered over the Channel (the strip of water between Europe and UK) that there was a list of ‘undesirables’ to be rounded up in the event of the invasion of England, and that Freemasons figured prominently, the members of the time ‘clammed up’ and stopped advertising. Hardly surprising wouldn’t you agree?
This attitude naturally prevailed until the WWII generation had pretty much passed on; but the legacy is that the likes of Knight and Short made up stories that the media had a field day with, and, as it was all BS, no-one bothered to waste breathe in refuting. Wrong decision at the time, and since acknowledged as such.
The bottom line is that, in spite of what you may have heard, there has yet to be a proven case of the blacklisting or the malpractices you refer to. On the odd occasion that someone has named names, investigations has shown that the accusation was unfounded or withdrawn. It just does not happen.
Hopefully, after your 17 posts all along the same theme, you are now starting to appreciate that your viewpoint is inaccurate to say the least.
Thanks for the answers. While I am confident that the majority of masons are sound, I am of course referring to the ‘rot’ element as highlighted by the book ‘Inside the Brotherhood’ where ex Freemasons have spoken about malpractices that they or have seen others being involved in. Has anybody heard of the book at all?
Also, imagine that you had a political point of view that was unpopular with a certain freemason only to find that you are blacklisted from work. I would imagine it to be very difficult to complain about it being freemasonary because the victim wouldn’t know what freemason did the blacklisting as it would be done in secret. I have heard that this practice is rife in freemasonary.
I’m sorry but you are getting carried away and are now being generally insulting!
Freemasonry does not have any influence outside of Freemasonry, except in the heads of a certian kind of people and Martin Short is one of those people. Your statement makes it appear that you, too, may be one of those people.
I’m not one of those people and I do not appreciate the insult. I asked you a legitimate question considering there is a book that is all about freemasonary published and considering this is a forum where people get answers to questions then I understand that my questions are completely justified esp since I don’t know whether to join the freemasons or the kofsc. I just wanted to get the real gist because I do not want to join an organization that blacklists people as a result of political beliefs. The only real answer I got to the question was that someone offered to investigate said victims of masonic influence. This is a real answer instead of obfuscating the original question with general ‘you must be a conspiracy theorist’ replies just because someone asks a question. It is fact that there are stories about the Freemasons blacklisting people. If that’s the case then you can’t argue with the fact that I am entitled to ask such questions along the following lines.
Also, one of the main reasons I am asking this is in the past in Scotland blacklisting because of religious beliefs was rife in the Orange Lodge (and more consistently in Northern Ireland) because of the Catholic/ Protestant divide. So I am not insulting you, it’s in fact an important question.
Sorry just to set you straight. You are in America talking about a book written in England and about English Freemasons by a very nasty little man who jumped on the bandwagon started by Stephen Knight in the early 80s.
You will notice that depspite all his claims no one has ever been identified and no reports have ever been made to the Police. If you feel that you, in anyway, believe what he wrote is true you MUST stay away from Freemasonry and join the Knights of Columbus because you are not the right kind of person for Freemasonry.
I say again Freemasonry has no power outside of Freemasonry in the real world! The only exception to this is in the heads of sometimes sad and sometimes strange people.
I didn’t for once say I believed anything that was written in his book. I came on here to get answers to address the book. Considering the bloody oaths that you swear to (which has been explained) it’s easy to come to the conclusion that ‘Freemasonary’ is quite triad or mafia like as they swear to bloody oaths.
Can’t you see why people would make that assumption? It’s actually quite a sensible thing for an uninitiated person to think. I’m not as uninitiated though and I now know the oaths are figurative only.
I will have other questions so I would like the tone to be a bit more relaxed. No more insults or sneerage. I have already apologized for putting up the link to Prince Michael of Albany’s book. Thanks for answering my questions.
I will have other questions so I would like the tone to be a bit more relaxed. No more insults or sneerage.
I think you might need to stop and have a bit of a think about this “insults” business. Do you not realise how insulting it is, to me as a Freemason, to have someone come here and bandy about content from a book that was debunked more than a decade ago when the British Government carried out an investigation into Freemasonry’s alleged “influence”.
You really should just stop and think about what you write if you don’t want terse responses from people who are offended about the accusations you are repeating that are about them. For me it is not a “theory” because I am an actual Freemason, not one of the many people who have made up stories about us in order to sell books and/or films.
However and as I said earlier, if you even suspect that these things are to be found within Freemasonry you should forget any idea of joining as you are no good to Freemasonry. We do not join the Craft with nefarious intent and indeed the Craft itself steers us away from such despicable behaviour, especially as portrayed in these fictional works.
Curious - Are you aware that the accusations put forward by ‘Inside the Brotherhood’ are similar to the ones made by Leo Taxil back in the 1880’s. All of which he revealed as an elaborate hoax.
You see, these types of claims have been brought up all the time by those who think they are “on” to something simply because they stumbled upon a word here or a phrase there. You talk about the “bloody oaths” and how you know they are symbolic. Maybe you read them in a book somewhere or someone told you about them, I don’t really know nor do I care. You simply cannot get the full understanding of them by just reading them. Basically they are worthless without the rest of the ceremonies that they are a part of.
The Masons here are all active Masons and have a firm grasp on what Masonry is all about. We will tell you anything you want to know.
I just wanted to get the real gist because I do not want to join an organization that blacklists people as a result of political beliefs.
But that’s just it; it doesn’t!
It is fact that there are stories about the Freemasons blacklisting people.
And that just it; they are just stories! They are NOT fact!
Also, one of the main reasons I am asking this is in the past in Scotland blacklisting because of religious beliefs was rife in the Orange Lodge (and more consistently in Northern Ireland) because of the Catholic/ Protestant divide.
And IF you’d done your initial research before making the accusation, you’d have realized that the Orange Lodge is NOT a masonic order or lodge. You only have to type Orange Order or Orange Lodge into Google and you’d have found a Wikipedia entry that would have told you all about it. I repeat; it’s NOT a masonic order or lodge.
These are the reasons Mike is getting hot (I was too and deleted some of my post before hitting SEND). UK masons have heard these arguments about these books so many times that it gets irritating to keep saying the same thing again and again. Sometimes we forget they didn’t have the same impact on your side of the pond. The fact is though, they are complete garbage and the pages are only fit to hang from the wall of the toilet (the john).
You’ll note that the only Masons really responding to this thread are UK based ...
Oh, and remember, the Knights of Columbus are a Catholic organization (see their own website). Masonry isn’t; it’s non-denominational. If you only want to mix with practicing Catholics, join KofC; if you want to mix with men of all faiths -and you won’t know what faith they hold- then join Masonry.
Once again, a non-mason who obviously knows more about Masonry than actual Masons. Mr. Short was never a Mason. I’m glad “Curious” came to this page for information from real Masons. My fervent hope is that he will listen with an attentive ear. I really don’t care one way or the other if he is interested in joining our ranks. I strongly doubt he actually is interested. I’m sure I wouldn’t sponsor anyone who spouted so much conspiracy theory.
How about reading Freemasonry for Dummies? Putting the title aside, it’s one of a very few books telling the truth about us in modern language.
I didn’t come on here with accusations, I came on here so that you could address the book. IF there is a book out to the general public about ‘the ills’ of Freemasonary then for someone that is not in the masons I have to address it and you have. I understand that the Orange Lodge is not freemasonary I was using it as an example. The only other option to get the real gist to prove that ‘Inside the brotherhood’ is complete rubbish is to join the craft without asking questions about it. Please don’t be offended by me asking questions about it. I can now come to the conclusion that the book is rubbish as there are (like you said) no sources named about it.
I have some other questions too. For example a mason told me ‘if you went to prison you would be treated better’. Why would a mason get special treatment in prison?
I can’t understand the terse response. You bring out a website that offers to answer questions and when somebody does you call them ‘insulting’.
“I wouldn’t petition someone with so much conspiracy theories”. I do have a genuine interest in joining and I think that is unfair. I am asking questions so I can debunk conspiracy theories so I can join with a clear conscience.
You have legitimate questions, I hope you are finding the responses helpful.
curious100 - 04 January 2012 10:40 AM
I have some other questions too. For example a mason told me ‘if you went to prison you would be treated better’. Why would a mason get special treatment in prison?
Please forgive me, but that is just too funny. You see, as a Mason, you are expected to live according to the laws of where you live. Being sent to prison would more than likely get you expelled from the fraternity. I would be interested in what Lodge this Mason that told you this is a member of, because it too is complete rubbish.
