“Masonic ritual teaches a plan of salvation which is not based on faith in Jesus Christ, but rather on the basis of imitating Hiram Abiff, the (prototype) Masonic savior.  Galatians 1:8-9 reveals that the penalty for teaching a false plan of salvation is eternal condemnation.”

I’ve heard a lot of evidence of this. What is your response to that statement? Why do ex freemasons mysteriously die immediately after revealing information?
Do freemasons practice satanism?
What are freemasons currently doing to achieve the New World Order conspiracy theories?

Am I mislead?

Hi David(?).  You show that as a quote; may I enquire where it came from?
The reason I ask is that Masonry does not promise ‘salvation’ - it is not a religion. Rather, it teaches a way of improving oneself using Hiram Abiff as an example of moral behaviour.  For example, it portrays him as someone who considers that keeping one’s word is paramount.  Religion deals with man’s relationship with God (or the Supreme Being in non-denominational terms); arguably Masonry deals with man’s relationship with man - ‘do unto others as you would they would do to you’.  So Masonry compliments your religious beliefs.

I’m not aware of any freemason ‘dying after revealing information’. There is no information in our possession that is not already in the public domain if you choose to look for it, you just won’t hear it from a true freemason - see the reason above.
Ask yourself this; if you told a friend something in confidence, what would you think of him if he then decided to tell the world? Not much, right? But would you kill him? - No. You just wouldn’t have much respect for him.

As to practicing satanism; we have a considerable membership who are clergy of one denomination or another ... do you really believe that their conscience would allow them to continue as members if that were true?
And re: NWO - I suggest you browse the conspiracy section for the numerous answers to that one!

So yes, I regret that you have been seriously misled - but this is the place to hopefully dispel your fears.

Very nicely answered Brother Richard.

I too would like to know where the quote came from.

Ah - now I know where it comes from; Ephesians 5:11 website (found via other forum posts about the site).  Search the conspiracy section of this site for E511 for loads about that site ...

Richard George - 20 December 2011 10:12 AM

Ah - now I know where it comes from; Ephesians 5:11 website (found via other forum posts about the site).  Search the conspiracy section of this site for E511 for loads about that site ...

I had a feeling that that is where it came from.  That is a favorite saying of Larry and his “crew”.  To put it nicely, they are a group that believes that the only way, correct answer, etc, is theirs and everyone else is wrong.

davidbaker - 19 December 2011 07:16 PM

“Masonic ritual teaches a plan of salvation which is not based on faith in Jesus Christ, but rather on the basis of imitating Hiram Abiff, the (prototype) Masonic savior.  Galatians 1:8-9 reveals that the penalty for teaching a false plan of salvation is eternal condemnation.”

I’ve heard a lot of evidence of this. What is your response to that statement?
Do freemasons practice satanism?
What are freemasons currently doing to achieve the New World Order conspiracy theories?

Am I mislead?

I sometimes wish our meetings were open to the public when I read stuff like this. We would kill off all the conspiracy nutjobs by boring them to death ;)

There is no mention of salvation in any of our Ritual and no promise of salvation from the teachings of Masonry. there is a requirement that every Mason believe in a Supreme Being and we consistently point out that the man’s religion is where he should look to for salvation. Every meeting opens and closes with prayer to the grand Architect of the Universe, the name we give to allow each of us to pray to whatever Supreme Being our individual faith teaches us to worship. This is how we can have men of many faiths join in harmony and brotherly love for the common goal of becoming better, more moral men.

davidbaker - 19 December 2011 07:16 PM

Why do ex freemasons mysteriously die immediately after revealing information?

Please list those mysterious deaths. Include name, date, place and cause of death if you would.

There was a case in the 1800s called “The Morgan Affair” where Captain William Morgan, broke and down on his luck, published a clear-text book of Masonic Ritual. It’s on a number of web sites if you would like to read it (I warn you that boredom is a distinct possibility, though). The book became quite popular, especially among Masons trying to memorize Ritual. Captain Morgan disappeared shortly after being paid and was never heard from again. A body washed ashore that some claimed was Captain Morgan, but the body was much shorter than the Captain. The most credible explanation of what happened to Captain Morgan is that he was provided with a horse and some cash and asked to leave the area. he supposedly fled to Canada. The Morgan Affair was the big story in the newspapers of the day (most of which were more interested in selling papers than the truth) and inflamed so much passion that a new political party, “The Anti-Mason Party” was formed and lasted a few years.

To my knowledge, the Morgan Affair is the only incident where Masons were accused of killing somebody for revealing our secrets. No one was ever charged with anything and the evidence shows that not only was nobody killed, the “secret” book was quite popular within Masonry.

davidbaker - 19 December 2011 07:16 PM

Do freemasons practice satanism?

Here we go again. The simple answer is no. I am not a Satanist. I personally know men who are quite devote in their beliefs who also have been honored with Masonry’s highest honors from a Past Grand Master to the Joseph Warren Medal to the 33rd degree and Knight Templar. None of them worship the devil. The majority are Christians.

Many people will now quote Albert Pike’s “Morals and Dogma” where he talks about “Lucifer, the light bringer.” Well, that’s ok. Pike was a brilliant man who, as a trained lawyer, liked to look at all sides of ideas. The Romans referred to the Planet Venus as “Lucifer” which translates into “light bringer”. Venus is also known as the Morning Star since it usually heralds the dawn. When Pike wrote M&D, Lucifer was not commonly used as a name for the devil, either. This is one of the most often misunderstood and misquoted passages in M&D, a book of over 850 pages.

Yes, we seek more light in Masonry, but that is more along the lines of Jesus’s, “I am the way, the truth and the Light.”

davidbaker - 19 December 2011 07:16 PM

What are freemasons currently doing to achieve the New World Order conspiracy theories?

Well, we have a bunch of charities. Just this past Friday, I was at a dinner at Grand Lodge where the Grand Master told us about a great new charity we are starting up to help find a cure for heart disease. The Shriners (you must be a Mason to be a Shriner) have a network of 23 hospitals that treat burns and orthopedic problems and the families never get a bill. Masons are the largest group of blood donors in the world. We give over $2 million dollars a day to charity. We’ve been doing things like this for 295 years. If we were really trying to take over the world, you would think we would have achieved that goal by now.

Masonry does not have a central governing authority. Each State in the US and country elsewhere has its own Grand Lodge and its own rules. Sometimes we all get along but sometimes we don’t. We don’t have a super-secret hollowed out volcano where, like a James Bond villain, we plot to take over and implement the New World Order. We are content with helping those in need, trying to be better men and sharing the journey of life with our brothers.

davidbaker - 19 December 2011 07:16 PM

Am I mislead?

Yes.

On the other hand, you have the courage and curiosity to ask these questions of real Masons. I hope you believe our answers. Unfortunately, we are not the all-powerful evil overlords the conspiracy theorists would make us out to be. We are simply men, from all walks of life, who gather together in friendship to help make the world and ourselves better.

windrider - 20 December 2011 10:56 AM

davidbaker - 19 December 2011 07:16 PM

” We don’t have a super-secret hollowed out volcano where, like a James Bond villain, we plot to take over and implement the New World Order.”.

Dang, there go my vacation plans.  Guess I’ll take the kids to Disneyland instead.  Maybe Las Vegas- there’s a volcano at the Mirage!

Satanic worship?  Not for me.  I’m happy with my religion and I’m not looking for any other ways to worship at present.  My rabbi would un-friend me on Facebook if I did. 

Being part of a New World Order?  I have a hard enough time getting my kids to listen to me, let alone the entire planet.  Besides, any married man here can tell you who is really in charge.

Seriously though, I applied and eagerly await my degrees for all the honest, positive reasons listed on the replies here.  I simply want to affiliate myself with men of good character and do good things for my community.  If I can do that, I figure I’m doing good for myself, my family, my friends and my neighbors. 

I’m the newest of newbies when it comes to this stuff, but I think it’s probably why most members joined the fraternity.  Just my opinion.

I see, so why are there so many conspiracy rumours going on about freemasonry, connecting it with the illuminati whose sign is even on the american dollar bill, (for which I’m also trying to understand the reason and meaning!?), and if your deeds are all for the benefit of humankind through charity and self improvement, why not announce all your ins and outs? why must some things remain secret? why do so many people believe that freemasonry is one of several cults that aim to corrupt people’s morals, (which is happening rapidly every year), because a corrupt world can be more easily controlled.. MKultra was a horrific attempt to control people through all kinds of abuse, what is freemasonry’s association with that? google it! loads of articles that link mkultra with freemasonry ...!!?

If freemasonry is all about helping one’sself and each other, why are there so many people against it, associating it with numerous cults and evil conspiracy theories?

davidbaker - 09 January 2012 07:58 PM

I see, so why are there so many conspiracy rumours going on about freemasonry, connecting it with the illuminati whose sign is even on the american dollar bill,

Really you’re asking the wrong question. Freemasonry has been woven into the larger “Conspiracy Theory”. If you pay proper attention to them and read a bit wider there is really only one over-arching conspiracy theory and basically it boils down to a very paranoid “someone, somewhere is watching and controlling us for an evil purpose”. There are numerous groups and organisations woven into it some real like: Freemasonry, Skull and Bones, the United Nations, NATO etc and others imaginary such as aliens, reptilians, secret religions and of course the ubiquitous Illuminati.

davidbaker - 09 January 2012 07:58 PM

If freemasonry is all about helping one’sself and each other, why are there so many people against it, associating it with numerous cults and evil conspiracy theories?

Now you’ve come to a difficult place personally. You see you’ve already been gullible in that you have been suckered into believing what non-Masons have written and claimed about Freemasonry but you have now asked some real Freemasons and they have told that your previous information was flawed. You have to work it out for yourself, which do you think is more likely to be true?

To add to Mike’s answer above, you have been gullible enough to believe what the anti and so called “ex” Masons have written which is intentionally taken out of context.  If you simply read the read the ritual, which is clearly what most of the anti’s do, you simply cannot comprehend what is meant by it. The reference to Hiram Abiff is one such case.

davidbaker - 09 January 2012 07:58 PM

I see, so why are there so many conspiracy rumours going on about freemasonry, connecting it with the illuminati whose sign is even on the american dollar bill, (for which I’m also trying to understand the reason and meaning!?),

Rumors hardly ever expose the truth. We’ve given you facts. The Illuminati has been gone for 200 years except in the fantasies of authors of fiction and conspiracy theorists. No matter what people say about us, we can’t control anyone’s fantasies.

The sign of the all-seeing eye has been used throughout history from the Egyptians representation of the Eye of Ra (the sun god) to the Islamic dejal (sp?) or demon. It’s use , according to the designers, on the back of the dollar bill is to signify the all-seeing eye of God and the pyramid’s 13 rows of stones signifying the original 13 states of the US. The inscription translates to “New Order of the Ages” not “New World Order”. No Freemasons (or for that matter Illuminati members) were on the committee that came up with the design for the dollar bill we see today and none of the designs proposed by the only Mason to contribute to the design made the cut to the final design.

davidbaker - 09 January 2012 07:58 PM

and if your deeds are all for the benefit of humankind through charity and self improvement, why not announce all your ins and outs? why must some things remain secret?

Because we do not seek self-promotion and believe our deeds speak louder than any words could. As to why some things must remain secret, we have none left. Every word of our Ritual, Every sign and grip that we swear to keep secret is available with the simplest of research tools. The Grand Lodge of England was formed in 1717. The first “Freemasons Exposed!” book was published in 1723. A Mason keeps those secrets not because they are unavailable from others, but to keep his word to the fraternity. There would be no harm at all to the fraternity if I shouted all our “secrets” from the roof of my town hall but I would be turning my back on the oaths I swore to keep those secrets and my brothers would turn away from me. It’s not a matter of secrets, it’s a matter of honor.

davidbaker - 09 January 2012 07:58 PM

why do so many people believe that freemasonry is one of several cults that aim to corrupt people’s morals, (which is happening rapidly every year), because a corrupt world can be more easily controlled..

You would have to ask them. The roots of this can be traced back to 19th century France and a man named Leo Taxil. as you have suggested to us, google him.

davidbaker - 09 January 2012 07:58 PM

MKultra was a horrific attempt to control people through all kinds of abuse, what is freemasonry’s association with that? google it! loads of articles that link mkultra with freemasonry ...!!?

The CIA has done some evil things and this is just one of them. I can see no evidence of Freemasonry being involved in this project from the 1950s. We simply had nothing to do with it. Just because a paranoid person blames all the world’s ills on Freemasonry doesn’t make their ravings true.

davidbaker - 09 January 2012 07:58 PM

If freemasonry is all about helping one’sself and each other, why are there so many people against it, associating it with numerous cults and evil conspiracy theories?

You would have to ask them. They obviously know very little about what we really are.

All this high-falutin’ talk about the CIA, the Egyptions, and worldwide conspiracies to establilsh the NWO. Let me give DavidBaker a simple instance of one of the things that Freemasonry is really about.

At our stated meeting last evening, the Secretary read a note he received from a member living in West Virginia whom he had sent a bill for 2012 dues and for 2011 dues still unpaid. The brother explained that he had injured his back last autumn and had been unable to work since then, that he had had no money for Christmas and had next to none even to buy food, and was therefore unable to pay the lodge bill. The outcome of this was that the lodge voted to remit (forgive) both years dues, which means we not only lose that revenue but actually take a loss because we still have to pay his charges to the Grand Lodge. When lodge closed and we went to refreshments (there were about 25 to 30 members present), we put a box on a side table and invited those present to contribute money to send to the brother. The Treasurer went home with a pile of $5, $10, and $20 bills totalling $125 to be sent immediately to the brother in West Virginia. Finally, the Sr. Warden called the brother on his cellphone to find out how he was doing, let him know that he doesn’t have to pay the dues bills and that some small help is on the way. He also let the brother know that if he is again in bad straits, he should go to the nearest lodge in W. Va., ask them for help and give them the contact information for our lodge so that we can reimburse them for any help they can give. In other words, for a distressed brother, help is as close as the nearest building with a square and compasses on it.  And that, Charlie Brown and Davidbaker, is what Freemasonry is really all about—brotherhood and beneficence.

Ahh but Robert and Paul,

you are forgetting that like myself you, are clearly, not of a high enough Degree to be able to talk about what goes on behind close doors at the meetings of our “secret masters”.

Of course it is often at this point in the proceedings that the more alert non-Masons spot the irony in the claim that “lower level” Freemasons don’t know about the “secret masters”. Because if the Freemasons don’t know about them how the heck can all these non-Masons???

davidbaker - 09 January 2012 07:58 PM

If freemasonry is all about helping one’sself and each other, why are there so many people against it, associating it with numerous cults and evil conspiracy theories?

2 words really, Ignorance and Intolerance.

Mike Martin - 10 January 2012 12:33 PM

Ahh but Robert and Paul,

you are forgetting that like myself you, are clearly, not of a high enough Degree to be able to talk about what goes on behind close doors at the meetings of our “secret masters”.

Of course it is often at this point in the proceedings that the more alert non-Masons spot the irony in the claim that “lower level” Freemasons don’t know about the “secret masters”. Because if the Freemasons don’t know about them how the heck can all these non-Masons???

Ahhh, yes, the “high level” secret guys. 

To you Sovereign Grand Inspectors General we say this:
That you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 30th, 31st, and 32nd Degree’s.

Albert Pike Morals and Dogma pg 220-221

Having received the 32nd degree, as well as the 30th and 31st, I can say that while I did learn something, it was not something I did not already know, it was just presented in a particular fashion that made you think…..

People see a number and immediately associate it with status, this goes with the ignorance I referred to above.

To David,

I would like to suggest a page for you to read by a Freemason who like many of us gets hacked off by the anti-Masonic brigade, it is here: http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Masonry/Questions/difficult.html