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Inverted pentagram on Washington DC street map
Posted: 13 October 2011 12:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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@writersblock1307: re: “You are right to a degree, that Morris is in fact in the video.  However, his presence in the video, despite his contributions, does not change the fact that the video is filled with misinformation.”

I cited the video strictly for the interview, and included the full version as a courtesy for any as interested as I was in seeing further context. If it is spammed again, I will simply upload the interview by itself on my youtube channel and re-cite it, and hopefully avoid any further stated issues.

re: “We strive to disprove the fallacies and myths surrounding Freemasonry, not add to them.”

It seems your reliance on inductive reasoning to justify your conclusion in an absolute context that the entire video is filled with misinformation could ironically be considered a fallacy in itself, as a skeptic should naturally need to hear a convincing deductive analysis to come to the conclusion that someone is properly presenting a logical argument for consideration and further debate if necessary. Basically, along with a claim comes a burden of proof. The justifications for removal so far seem to only be supported by a play of the Nazi card[1] and outright lies via the administrator.

[1] Argumentum ad Hitlerum, aka “playing the Nazi card”, is an ad hominem or ad misericordiam argument. It is a logical fallacy of irrelevance in which a conclusion is suggested based solely on something’s origin rather than its current meaning or usage. Basically, the suggested logic is one of guilt by association, so since there are no stated objections to the interview by itself, your justification for removing it for the association with the rest of the video hardly seems to give me the appearance of removing fallacies from Freemasonry, as you so claim you wish to do. In addition, this also appears to further support a developing hypothesis about unfair censorship in this forum.

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Posted: 13 October 2011 04:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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ProChoiceVax - 13 October 2011 12:33 AM

@writersblock1307: re: “You are right to a degree, that Morris is in fact in the video.  However, his presence in the video, despite his contributions, does not change the fact that the video is filled with misinformation.”

I cited the video strictly for the interview, and included the full version as a courtesy for any as interested as I was in seeing further context. If it is spammed again, I will simply upload the interview by itself on my youtube channel and re-cite it, and hopefully avoid any further stated issues.

re: “We strive to disprove the fallacies and myths surrounding Freemasonry, not add to them.”

It seems your reliance on inductive reasoning to justify your conclusion in an absolute context that the entire video is filled with misinformation could ironically be considered a fallacy in itself, as a skeptic should naturally need to hear a convincing deductive analysis to come to the conclusion that someone is properly presenting a logical argument for consideration and further debate if necessary. Basically, along with a claim comes a burden of proof. The justifications for removal so far seem to only be supported by a play of the Nazi card[1] and outright lies via the administrator.

[1] Argumentum ad Hitlerum, aka “playing the Nazi card”, is an ad hominem or ad misericordiam argument. It is a logical fallacy of irrelevance in which a conclusion is suggested based solely on something’s origin rather than its current meaning or usage. Basically, the suggested logic is one of guilt by association, so since there are no stated objections to the interview by itself, your justification for removing it for the association with the rest of the video hardly seems to give me the appearance of removing fallacies from Freemasonry, as you so claim you wish to do. In addition, this also appears to further support a developing hypothesis about unfair censorship in this forum.

Did you read the information at the links provided previously?

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Posted: 13 October 2011 04:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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ProChoiceVax - 13 October 2011 12:33 AM

@writersblock1307: re: “You are right to a degree, that Morris is in fact in the video.  However, his presence in the video, despite his contributions, does not change the fact that the video is filled with misinformation.”

I cited the video strictly for the interview, and included the full version as a courtesy for any as interested as I was in seeing further context. If it is spammed again, I will simply upload the interview by itself on my youtube channel and re-cite it, and hopefully avoid any further stated issues.

re: “We strive to disprove the fallacies and myths surrounding Freemasonry, not add to them.”

It seems your reliance on inductive reasoning to justify your conclusion in an absolute context that the entire video is filled with misinformation could ironically be considered a fallacy in itself, as a skeptic should naturally need to hear a convincing deductive analysis to come to the conclusion that someone is properly presenting a logical argument for consideration and further debate if necessary. Basically, along with a claim comes a burden of proof. The justifications for removal so far seem to only be supported by a play of the Nazi card[1] and outright lies via the administrator.

[1] Argumentum ad Hitlerum, aka “playing the Nazi card”, is an ad hominem or ad misericordiam argument. It is a logical fallacy of irrelevance in which a conclusion is suggested based solely on something’s origin rather than its current meaning or usage. Basically, the suggested logic is one of guilt by association, so since there are no stated objections to the interview by itself, your justification for removing it for the association with the rest of the video hardly seems to give me the appearance of removing fallacies from Freemasonry, as you so claim you wish to do. In addition, this also appears to further support a developing hypothesis about unfair censorship in this forum.

Wait, what?  I have to ask myself how we went from streets of Washington D.C. to the Nazi party!

Look we could argue semantics all day.  The thing is… the basis of your argument seems to be focused on the words we use rather than their meaning.  By that I mean, the administrator chose the words “Links removed as they have nothing to do with Freemasonry.”  Now if you want to break that sentence down specifically, you could state “The video talks about Freemasonry, so it DOES have something to do with Freemasonry.” However that wasn’t the issue.  As I’ve stated, numerous times, the links were deleted due to the predications of misinformation.  There is honestly no other reason.  It is not because we are unfairly censoring you, it is simply because the citation has false and misleading connotations.  This is a site that has at its core the mission and the privilege to give honest Masonic answers to honest Masonic questions. 

That’s not to say you can’t post the video on another forum that doesn’t mind a link of that nature.  It simply means it has no place here.  I hope you understand this.  If you have any specific questions, please ask them.  I’d suggest in a new thread as this one has strayed pretty far from the original question.

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“My most brilliant achievement was my ability to be able to persuade my wife to marry me.”
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Posted: 13 October 2011 05:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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ProChoiceVax - 12 October 2011 01:33 PM

If any Freemasons here are allowed to discuss this, could someone please explain why French Freemason Pierre LEnfant designed the street plan of Washington D.C. to include an upside down (i.e. “satanic”) pentagram pointing at the White House? I have seen a Freemason apologist in a documentary attempt to explain this before[1], but his explanation did not seem to adequately cover the occultic concept behind a “broken” pentagram. Thank you.

Rather than expend brain energy re-writing what I’ve written many time before here is a selection of previous responses to this particular subject:


[QUOTE=mike martin;686581] Quite right! It was the first city actually built specifically to be the Capital City of a country.

I finally got the time to use some maps and Google earth to have a look at the layout of Washington DC. It trashes your silly story! Those lines that you draw onto those old maps hide the fact that there are no complete lines to the “symbols” that you’ve found. Other really important parts are just not there at all, such as:

The 90 degree angle that makes a square a square is not present. The square that you draw is actually made up of Louisiana and Washington Avenues which start well apart from each other, with some kind of park between them. There is no join which must be present to make a square. It is also clear that they would not join in the right place if you draw accurate line to their actual routes.

The hinge of the compasses is not present, both of the roads terminate in roundabouts well apart from each other.

The right hand leg of the compasses is not complete at all. The left hand leg is made up of Pennsylvania Avenue while the right leg starts in Maryland Avenue then is broken by Independence Avenue (which goes off at a different angle) then it gets lost amongst a load of buildings.

The horns are there, well sort of! If you ignore the fact that the left hand one (which is made up of Capital Circle) is actually in reality a completely different shape (more like a floppy bunny ear). However as they are new they hardly count anyway.

Now regardless of what you want to achieve you must surely agree that if there was a decision to include Masonic symbols in the street plan they would have actually done that. They were building a brand new city, they had nothing to go around so there is no reason for the symbols not to be complete. In fact if they are not complete you’re doing what we, in England, call “pissing into the wind”

I suppose the question is really did he design any other cities? I doubt it as he was sacked by Washington (hardly a recommendation) and the design was actually revised and applied by Andrew and Joseph Ellicott.

Mike


[QUOTE=mike martin;630417] From my perspective the problem is the whole story. No one can deny that Masonic buildings in DC have Masonic sybolism. The thing is just this whole idea that L’Enfant was a Mason (which no Masonic scholar has been able to prove) operating under direct orders from Washington (although history records Jefferson was the director and amended many of L’Enfant’s original plans) orchestrated Masonic symbolism into the street plan.

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/washington_dc/washington_dc.html

The real problem though is that anti-Masons promote these half-formed and cockeyed symbols as proof of some dark Masonic/occult agenda.

Mike


[QUOTE=mike martin;630417] ALL that someone would need to show me to convince me about the DC thing is just some actual proof (claims and speculation are not proof) or just as good a statement by the Grand Lodge of DC confirming the Masonic layout.

In the death I could claim that London has a Masonic layout and I could probaby find actual Masonic symbols in there somewhere but it still wouldn’t make it true.

Mike

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Posted: 13 October 2011 05:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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Zacharay

I want to thank you for your questions and responses, but I have to ask that you not post links to the Forum. I do not have time to get into a semantic conversation, but we do not include videos here that contain erroneous information about Freemasonry and have an agenda such as these. There is nothing satanic about Freemasonry. Nothing. There are thousands of videos out there that you can find that try to make these kinds of connections. They are wrong, and we are not going to have them get more search engine hits because they are on this site. People can find them if they want them.

If you want to find out about Freemasonry from real Freemasons who are here to answer your questions, please feel free to ask questions.

At this point you don’t seem to be here trying to find out anything about Freemasonry, but just have an agenda to prove a point. Your point is wrong. And call it what you will, but If you post the links again your account will be deleted.

Bob Heruska
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Posted: 13 October 2011 07:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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I don’t know why people keep getting hung up on these little games of drawing lines and trying to distinguish shapes, as it is so apparent to me that you can do this just about anywhere and come up with some sort of shape, and then just about any shape can be argued to be of some sinister meaning.

Here, I’ll do it for you with a completely different city.

Go to Google Earth.  Zoom in on Boston, specifically Boston Common and Public Garden (Latitude 42°21’17.35"N - Longitude 71° 4’1.99"W).
Looks like a nice garden in the middle of a city, no?
Now under the Layers section, click the box next to Roads.
It will draw lines on all the paths in the park.
Now have fun.  In the Northeastern corner of the Public Garden are a pair of sunglasses.  Obviously since my Grand Lodge is in eyeshot of this spot, it must prove that Masons worship the sun God and are giving you a warning to get some sunglasses.

Surrounding the pavilion in the middle of the Common is a circular path with 7 lines converging in the center, creating 6 subdivisions of the circle.  6 is part of 666, so obvbiously that is a satanic pavilion.  Watch out!

On the eastern side of the public garden, the pathways form the shape of a ham hock.  Obviously this is proof that the Masons are run by the Jews, who dispise ham and put that symbol there as a warning.

To the right of the ham hock is the outline of a man with a long hat and a beard.  This is obviously Santa Claus, a sign that the Jews are mocking the Christians who are also Masons - thereby showing that they are not real Christians.

And saving the best for last…..look to the North (a place referred to by Masons as a place of DARKENSS….ooooooh).  In the north is the Frog Pond.  Look at the paths around the Frog pond.  There you’ll find…..dum dum dummmmmmm…..an INCOMPLETE PENTAGRAM!

Here, I’ve even provided a picture for you so that you don’t have to search for it:

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h410/askafreemason/Bostonpark.jpg

Shall we continue.  Want to play this game with any more cities?  So far we have D.C., Chicago, and Boston (and that was just one park).  Getting the point.  What’s more likely, that every city in the country was built by a bunch of fraternity guys with way too much time on their hands and want to try to hide messages in the streets…..

...or that this little game of drawing lines and drawing wild conclusions is in fact the eroueous approach.

Sorry if I sound like I’m mocking you, but every other week a different person stumbles in there because they just heard this theory and are hell bent on proving it.  It is just false, and for those of us who are members, it is laughable because we know the truth.  All we can do is tell it to you and try to use logic to do so.  Whether or not you chose to believe the most possible and most probably conclusion is up to you.

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Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
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Posted: 13 October 2011 07:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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Conspiracy theories abound and the majority of them are downright laughable.

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Bro. Paul Hulseapple
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Posted: 13 October 2011 09:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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Thanks to all the moderators and other Masons here who have contributed to this thread.

I hope our answers have been satisfactory.

I believe we have said all we can say on this subject, so I am going to close the thread.

Bob

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