i should have asked that maybe: what is diference between you(i dont know your degree) and a master mason
and second one: what is the diference between you, a freemason, and me?
are we looking at life in a different way, are we perceiving differently?
thank you,
i should have asked that maybe: what is diference between you(i dont know your degree) and a master mason
and second one: what is the diference between you, a freemason, and me?
are we looking at life in a different way, are we perceiving differently?
thank you,
Perhaps a better way to look at it might be to ask, how has becoming a Master Mason changed me?
The journey of Masonry has been a journey inward for me. Going through the degrees and then becoming an officer in my Lodge has encouraged me to look at every aspect of my life and ask if that’s what I want it to be. Let me give you a example of what I mean. I proudly have a Square and Compass sticker on the rear window of my vehicle. I am telling the driver behind me that I’m a Mason. Partly because I’m declaring that fact but mostly because of the lessons I’ve learned, I drive more cautiously and with greater courtesy.
I wear a Masonic Ring. That helps me remember the lessons I learned and the promises I made. When something happens that could be upsetting, I try to remember to subdue my passions and resolve the situation with fairness and equity rather than anger and self righteousness.
So, there’s nothing different between you and I. I’m the same man I was before I received the gift of the degrees. The difference is that I now hold myself to a higher standard than I did before, the standard of being a Freemason.
what is the diference between you, a freemason, and me?
The difference? well I am a member of the oldest and most widespread fraternity in the World and you’re not.
I would suggest that you should have a read through the FAQ page helpfully supplied by this website and then have a think about what it is that you are really trying to ask. As at the moment your question is really difficult to answer because you don’t really know what your asking about.
yes, you are right about right question. and also, your explaining warms up people and shows something there may be something, truth, fair,,, . it is nice having a better life with being a freemason.
but on the other hand, why do you need someone to make yourlife better,(of course, we need help and we must help each other but your case is different i think), why couldnt you do yourself( because there are a great number of people who are suffering and they have to struggle with their issues) and also, if you depend on masonry and you think that it helps you really make your life fair, honest , how can you be independent?, WHAT IS YOUR REALITY ABOUT LIFE(NOT THEIR OPINION, because you
learnt a lot of good things with masonry but you dont have your own reality).(dont misunderstand me, please. i respect you, masonry.)
i know, i am askıng more than fews.
and the last one: when you look at the mirror, what are you seeing really?
for Mr Martin(i dont know lots of things about masonry you are right. but i read some basic things and a writing comes from words which i can misunderstand or not getting the basic idea from.a sentence gives lots of meaning.
but you are right, i dont know about masonry enough and of course i am not asking you about being in an oldest fraternity you know.i dont care about it. thank you)
thank you
yes, you are right about right question. and also, your explaining warms up people and shows something there may be something, truth, fair,,, . it is nice having a better life with being a freemason.
but on the other hand, why do you need someone to make yourlife better,(of course, we need help and we must help each other but your case is different i think), why couldnt you do yourself( because there are a great number of people who are suffering and they have to struggle with their issues) and also, if you depend on masonry and you think that it helps you really make your life fair, honest , how can you be independent?, WHAT IS YOUR REALITY ABOUT LIFE(NOT THEIR OPINION, because you
learnt a lot of good things with masonry but you dont have your own reality).(dont misunderstand me, please. i respect you, masonry.)
i know, i am askıng more than fews.
and the last one: when you look at the mirror, what are you seeing really?
for Mr Martin(i dont know lots of things about masonry you are right. but i read some basic things and a writing comes from words which i can misunderstand or not getting the basic idea from.a sentence gives lots of meaning.
but you are right, i dont know about masonry enough and of course i am not asking you about being in an oldest fraternity you know.i dont care about it. thank you)
thank you
I think you’re confused about the fundamentals of Masonry. We do not blindly follow the teachings of others within our Fraternity. The lessons of Masonry are tried and true guideposts for people to help themselves become better men while in the company of like-minded friends and brothers. We are not and do not operate like a religion.
You’re probably right in that a good man could learn these lessons on his own or even through a religion. I find Masonry attractive because my brothers support me in my journey without forcing me down any particular path. There are many paths to enlightenment and we must each choose our own. Masonry encourages free thought. That is why freemasonry is banned in most theocracies who must control the thoughts of their people.
yea, masonry occurs a group of people who trust, help and respect each other.it is not about religion or other things,,, i am not religinious definetely and i dont care any religion but i respect them. we need some special power to explain universa, and more strong than human, to explain impossible things, GOD,. i believe that i was created (like you) by a special power which i am part in. maybe we need to have to believe it for hope, to live.
you are a part of society which help each other, are being educated good things and it makes like minded friedns brothers. it is nice to have sincere friends in this world. but where do the good things, good behaviours come from? who is the source of the ^^good^^,. i mean that who wrote all documents about good things which you learnt.?
and if i join in masonry, i am educated, can i leave after it, do i have choice to give my decision?
and the last one: there are 2 cases: first one which some good , enough conditionals help people to be educated and make them better, good people.
second one which has bad conditionals and inspite of sruggling this conditionlas , make them bad or worse people.
now, to you, who are good people? who do you support?
thanks
yea, masonry occurs a group of people who trust, help and respect each other.it is not about religion or other things,,, i am not religinious definetely and i dont care any religion but i respect them. we need some special power to explain universa, and more strong than human, to explain impossible things, GOD,. i believe that i was created (like you) by a special power which i am part in. maybe we need to have to believe it for hope, to live.
you are a part of society which help each other, are being educated good things and it makes like minded friedns brothers. it is nice to have sincere friends in this world. but where do the good things, good behaviours come from? who is the source of the ^^good^^,. i mean that who wrote all documents about good things which you learnt.?
I know you’re trying very hard to make yourself understood and I apologize in advance if I am not parsing your questions correctly.
I believe you are asking where we find the moral lessons we teach and who wrote them. The lessons are universal and based on the “landmarks” of Masonry. One of the landmarks states that in ancient times it was required that masons convert to the religion of the land where they worked but now we accept any man that professes an belief in “the religion upon which all men agree”. In other words, you must be a man of faith but we are not interested in which particular faith you hold. So, in general, the morals come from the teachings of “the religion upon which all men agree”. That is why Masonry helps you on your personal path but does not dictate what that path must be. Don’t forget, we make good men better not bad men good.
and if i join in masonry, i am educated, can i leave after it, do i have choice to give my decision?
If you were to join Masonry and wanted to leave, all you need to do is fill out a form and hand it to the Lodge secretary. the process is called “demiting”. You might be asked how we could improve and provide you with what you were missing but nobody would stand in your way and you would be missed by the lodge and the Fraternity. If you decided to walk away, it would mean we had let you down and not provided you with what you needed from us. The only reason for the demit form is so we stop sending you bills for your dues.
and the last one: there are 2 cases: first one which some good , enough conditionals help people to be educated and make them better, good people.
second one which has bad conditionals and inspite of sruggling this conditionlas , make them bad or worse people.
now, to you, who are good people? who do you support?
thanks
I’m sorry, but I really don’t understand the question. What do you mean by “conditionals”?
yea, masonry occurs a group of people who trust, help and respect each other.it is not about religion or other things,,, i am not religinious definetely and i dont care any religion but i respect them. we need some special power to explain universa, and more strong than human, to explain impossible things, GOD,. i believe that i was created (like you) by a special power which i am part in. maybe we need to have to believe it for hope, to live.
you are a part of society which help each other, are being educated good things and it makes like minded friedns brothers. it is nice to have sincere friends in this world. but where do the good things, good behaviours come from? who is the source of the ^^good^^,. i mean that who wrote all documents about good things which you learnt.?
and if i join in masonry, i am educated, can i leave after it, do i have choice to give my decision?
and the last one: there are 2 cases: first one which some good , enough conditionals help people to be educated and make them better, good people.
second one which has bad conditionals and inspite of sruggling this conditionlas , make them bad or worse people.
now, to you, who are good people? who do you support?
thanks
If I under stand your train of thought here the best way I can answer you is to quote Dr. Norman Vincent Peale
“What does Freemasonry mean to me?”
The Reverend Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, 33
“Of course masons say that Freemasonry actually begins in each individual mason’s heart. I take this to mean a response to brotherhood and the highest ideals. I recall the story of a man who came to me once and said: “I see that you are a freemason. So am I.”
As we talked, he told me of an experience he had years ago. It seems that he joined the masonic fraternity shortly after he became 21 years old. When he was stationed in the military, he decided to attend various lodge meetings. On his first visit to a lodge in a strange city, he was a bit nervous. One thought was constantly in his mind; could he pass the examination to show that he was a mason?
As the committee was carefully examining his credentials, one of the members looked him squarely in the eye and said: “Obviously you know the ritual, so you can enter our lodge as a Brother Mason. But I have one more question. Where were you made a mason?” With that he told the young visitor to think about it because when he knew the answer the examiner would not have to hear it. He would see it in his eyes.
My friend told me that after a couple of minutes a big smile came to his face and he looked at the examiner, who said: “That’s right, in your heart.” “Through masonic teachings, good men practice love and charity. As a fraternity they spend millions of dollars…” Freemasonry is not a religion though, in my experience, masons have predominately been religious men and, for the most part, of the Christian faith.
Through Freemasonry, however, I have had opportunity to break bread with good men of other than my own Christian faith. Freemasonry does not promote any one religious creed. All masons believe in the Deity without reservation. However, Masonry makes no demands as to how a member thinks of the Great Architect of the Universe. Freemasonry is, for all its members, a supplement to good living which has enhanced the lives of millions who have entered its doors. Though it is not a religion, as such, it supplements faith in God the Creator. It is supporting of morality and virtue. Freemasonry has no dogma or theology. It offers no sacraments. It teaches that it is important for every man to have a religion of his own choice and to be faithful to it in thought and action. As a result, men of different religions meet in fellowship and brotherhood under the fatherhood of God. I think that a good Mason is made even more faithful to the tenets of his faith by his membership in the lodge.”
In essence each Mason already has the makings in his heart and probably left to his own devices would still be a moral and upright man. Freemasonry goes one step further in bring ing these moral men together to share in fellowship and brotherhood with individuals that would ordinarlily remained at a perpetual distance due to religious or political differences.
I can learn from them and they can learn from me. So the ‘source’ of the behavior is not in any document or ritual, but in the hearts of men who call themselves Freemasons. Many Masonic Scholors have writen about the history and philosphy of Freemasonry but in the end each Mason knows it is in his heart where he was prepared to be a Mason, so he already had the tools, he just needed to learn how to make them work for the betterment of all.
So Freemason are free to think forthemselves.
There are many, perhaps thousands of books witen about Freemasonry, some good some bad. We all know that they are the opinion of the author and not a doctrine to be followed. In some there are good or great ideas, or even different ideas. For me it’s enlightenment on steroids. There is so much to learn and share.
As to leaving the fraternity the answer is a resounding yes. If you feel Freemasonry is not for you, then you can leave (demit/resign) anytime you like or just stop paying your dues and after a while you will be dropped from the rolls as a member.
Masonry does not dictate who a Man is to help in that way. What is told is charity is held as very important and in my obligation as a Mason I am instricted to help aid and assist ‘worthy’ Masons. In the end no Mason I have met to date would be unworthy of my aid and I expect probably never to find someone who is not truly or at least somewhat worthy.
I wish the same could be said of other men I have met who were not Freemasons.
sorry for my english. Mr Windrider, probably you are right that maybe i am trying very hard to make myself understood. and also you cannot understand my questions clearly. i do not belong on any religion, sociey or fraternıty.., i have my own opinions only.
- landmarks came from ancient times, professes.. but the important point; does it give you something to think free, independent and also make you free? or it gives you its good beahviours, moral which you perceived and use in your life?( does it make you free, independent or teach you its moral,doctrines)
-for Mr Windrider, ^^Don’t forget, we make good men better not bad men good.^^ . to me it is not a good sentence (maybe i may not have understood it very much). because everyperson in this world is human, like you who was created same creator(we believe a creator). you are equal with eveyone.you should not make a discrimination.you could have been a bad person before joining masonry. second one, there is just one thing, good or bad. i am bad , you are bad, people in the world are bad, but it depends on the level of badness. if your level is low, it makes you better. if my level is higher, you are better than me. it is about level of badness or goodness. we are all bad or good. do you think you are a good man, or what does ’ a GOOD person’ or only ’ GOOD ’ mean?
-my questions were about two cases: first one : a person who was born in a good life, had a better life, and a result of this, he is a good person.
second: a person who was born in a difficult life, had worse life, and a result of this, he is a bad person whose level of badness is higher than first one.
but forget the question, i think my english is not enough maybe to ask it clearly.
thank you for example, explanation Mr ptk1071.
it helps me to think widely but some cases it did not give me answers what i really want.
thank you, Mr ptk1071. and Mr Windrider.
maybe the problem: it is not about masonry, it is about me who needs some answers in his life. and needs your help maybe.
i am dying(i am healthy, but time is passing) and i do not want to close my eyes with a nothing person. to be honest i do not know anything really in this universe. ^^i am lost^^ easy question. just 3 words. but i can not find the answers.:) i was born in a village and i am a poor person). when i was a child, i wanted to be a good person, a real good person and i was praying for god to help people who need help really. i was stupid:) but i continued, i tried to escape from bad things and do good things. it was a big aim for me being a real good person. therefore, i do not smoke, not get drugs , i stopped swearing and i tried to say always truth. i was trying to change my bad behaviours, for example i was very selfish, i didnt share anything with someone but i changed it, when i had something, especially i forced me to give it soomeone. it was difficult but i did.i did lots of things to change me, control my feelings, my passions, my mind.it was reallt difficult, you had to control yourself, be patient, even if you saw someone wanted to hurt you.inspite of his bad behaviour, you had to behave that person kindly, try to understand him without any hate, animosity.you had to control your feelings, bahaviours, speech in every stuation. i have never done sex, got drunk,,, for what : just to be a real, pure person for god. at high school, i was having same opinions still. but something was wrong, something was wrong really. and i changed my mind. i would not want to be a good person more. i do not care about it being a good person. something was wrong.i looked environment, people, animals , plants, clouds, where was i, what was i doing, who was me, questions and questions.. what was i? a body, flesh with some feelings and a brain, or more than it? i remembered my childhood and i was growing, something is changing on me, when i compared. i looked the mirror, lots of times to see something more than appererance inside of my eyes, inside of my eyes. heyyy, i was looking somehing which i did not know it and it is changing with times, dying.lots of times i compare me with other people( a baby, an old person) and everything in this universe.something is wrong: i am living ,i am tasting, i am seeing, i am hearing, i am feeling,,, (maybe it is funny, everyone has samethings ). i was trying to descibe me to find an explanaiton. owww,
it is difficult. maybe jusst for me:) i was trying to feel different, more than feelings, more than thoughts,,
i looked the world, people are slave of money, their passions, they are selling each other for their selfish feelings.everyday lots of disgusting things are happining and now are happening: people are dying because of hungers, wars, diseasters,,,, ,,, . other hand people have good life, enjoying times, a luxury life.there are two cases.which people dont care each other. where am i in this case in this life? what must i do? being a rich person, having a luxury life, being famous person, a president, for what? i do not want to be rich famous or other things,, people, animals are suffering. should i help them, try to change their life make it better? but there is a cycle and after me there will be same thinggs. in ancient times it was same and now it is same.
the problem is cycle.how can you break the cycle? i am as the sun, i am burning, i need to touch the sun.
we are slave of each other only. we only need to be independent, we need to create a person inside of this bodies,a new person, a new view looling the üniverse. creator, creator,, i am not slave of you. i am part of you, i am part of the nature, üniverse with everyhing from a stone, water to light, thought,,,. i am =you.
what i need : a question and an answer which i dont know.,,,,,,,,,
First and formost one must “know thyself”. Once you know you can begin to change things in your life for the better. This will lead to other changing around you, usually for the better.
Imagine if this chain were kept going.
It seems to me that you are seeking something very deep. I doubt you can find it on any forum. As the post I quoted Bro. Peale, the newer Mason in the story suddenly understands. This is kind of like a Eureka moment. Personally I have already had a few of these moments in Freemasonry and I hope I continue, learning, teaching and understanding.
I hope this makes sense and as your post is a bit difficult to follow as long as your still asking questions and and receptive to the answers I believe some will try and help you.
Thanks for your patience and the effort you are making to communicate in a language that you are still learning. You are doing very well. Of course, you are right and every person is a member of the family of mankind and is deserving of respect and assistance when they are in need. I used a short phrase, “We make good men better not bad men good.” to express a more complex idea.
One of the requirements to become a Mason is to have a good reputation. You cannot be a criminal or be considered by others in your community to be a bad person. We ask for references and many times will do a criminal background check. Most men would pass this challenge easily. All the millions of Masons in the world have passed this test.
When Masons meet each other for the first time, after they prove to each other that they really are Masons, there is an assumption that they can trust one another. They are brothers and friends that just have not met yet. If we opened our Lodges to anyone without even a minimum standard of virtue, that trust would not be valid. We do not allow thieves, murderers, gangsters, drug dealers, etc. to become Masons. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to associate with that kind of person either.
‘know thyself’ that is right. if you change yourself, know yourself, you can change another things otherwise it will be just for selfish feelings.you should look at the universe outside of body, feelings,,,
you should merge with nature , everything..
maybe, i may be seeking something very deep.i sometimes go to church, i am not religious, i just need to be alone and need to think, the best , silent place is church. when people get older, they usually go to church maybe eend of their life, they start understanding something.i see them praying god maybe to wish help, to go to heaven,,,
everyhing is meaningless for me and it makes me crazy really.when i walk in the street, or in the bus, train, in a restaurant, classroom, i see people and everyhing is seeming to me very weird. i am thinking i am not real really.
there is a body which is breathing, feeling, hearing, tasting,,, maybe i am losing my mind really really..
i am 24 and i am nothing.i do not know it but i need somehing really. i need to do something, it is unavoidable. maybe i should kill myself:) i need to leave from this body, i need to be alone and listen to me.
i=we, i changed something on me and now i can not go back , i have to walk forward.for this i need to change people, something around me.because i have to do what i know and i cant let them stop me, otherwise i can not walk. i am stopping, watching now. the best thing is, maybe living alone a very far place from people. or i need to keep going it which will influence you.
maybe i should joın masonry to be with good people.
‘know thyself’ that is right. if you change yourself, know yourself, you can change another things otherwise it will be just for selfish feelings.you should look at the universe outside of body, feelings,,,
you should merge with nature , everything..
maybe, i may be seeking something very deep.i sometimes go to church, i am not religious, i just need to be alone and need to think, the best , silent place is church. when people get older, they usually go to church maybe eend of their life, they start understanding something.i see them praying god maybe to wish help, to go to heaven,,,
everyhing is meaningless for me and it makes me crazy really.when i walk in the street, or in the bus, train, in a restaurant, classroom, i see people and everyhing is seeming to me very weird. i am thinking i am not real really.
there is a body which is breathing, feeling, hearing, tasting,,, maybe i am losing my mind really really..
i am 24 and i am nothing.i do not know it but i need somehing really. i need to do something, it is unavoidable. maybe i should kill myself:) i need to leave from this body, i need to be alone and listen to me.
i=we, i changed something on me and now i can not go back , i have to walk forward.for this i need to change people, something around me.because i have to do what i know and i cant let them stop me, otherwise i can not walk. i am stopping, watching now. the best thing is, maybe living alone a very far place from people. or i need to keep going it which will influence you.
maybe i should joın masonry to be with good people.
After reading this post, I don’t think Masonry would be the answer to your issues. I respectfully ask you to seek professional help. Your suicidal thoughts are troubling and you really need to take positive action to prevent harm to yourself or others.
first of all, thank you for your recommend.you may be right and i may have issues , i only may not discern it, my issues. because you know, people usually refuse thougts against them.i could be an example maybe for that case.
and also if i tell you, your principles, which you learnt in masonry, are not right, will you admit it, probably answer is no.because you believe that they are right.
about my thoughts: of course , i dont kill me. the main point about me,: i want to break out, go out the material üniverse. i want to cahage the power of material on me and i am struglling material life and i need to defeat it.
if you ask me, what you mean exactly: for example, i need to change the power of money on me, my aim is not to be rich, not to have expensive clothes, house, cars, a luxury life. i only want to work to just live a normal life,to help people, animals, environemt. i do not want power and i am not looking to people for their wealth. you know people, they only care with money and can do everything for it. if you dont have money, noone will respect you, you know there are a lot of examples and there are more disgusting examples, people sell each other such as. i do not want to be a person like them.and more,,,
and second point: material life, i need to break it. because that time i think, i can merge the üniverse, with every lives and lifeless in this üniverse. i do not want to see me as a body and feelings. i am looking something which can be anything, means that can understand people, animals and other things. for this one, you should leave your body. i don not know how can i explain it. when i walk, study, think, feel, taste, see,,,, i would like to use all my things. seeing more than an image, hearing more than normal things, feeling more than normal things,,,,
it is not about inteligence or anything else. i do not care as well. if i am here and i am dying, i always have a choice until death.
my aim is not for having good behaviours, inteligence, succesful, i have said. i want to do something to raise me, to look at the world not to see an image.
look at the world, not world, the universe. you are dying, you do not know the future, you do not know why are you here, who are you… there is no limit to do something, words are nothing.
when i said : ^^i need to keep going it which will influence you.^^ you know people are helping each other for something, reward from them. and this is not a real help.neverthless it is happining for all people in the world. therefore i mentioned that i will refuse all wishes which are for selfish, i will behave fairly this is not easy and i can not stop to carry on even if all abstacle. this means, there are 2 choices: 1: i have to be changed 2: you must be changed.you can be one of them,( slave of money, selfish feelings) or you must carry on.
what i will do: i will join charities and at the same time work hard.(not to be rich, succesful,,). i will join some social groups, new people, new culture, sometimes i will visit a religion temple to listen to me, maybe to pray for creator,, and more..
in my opinion, you should look at positive and negative things. there is not just one, look at the boths and be fair. if you choose just one, there will be always a clash, conflict.it is same for our life, look at the boths and behave fairly ,understand boths and do what is really right.dont look at from one side. i am not optimistic or pesimistic.i am trying to do it. it is my opinion.
if you think really, i have suicide thoughts, and if i really realiaze it, i will take professional helps. believe in me.because i know me, i can look at me outside from this body.
