Ask a Freemason Questions and Answers Find a Lodge Near You
 
   
1 of 2
1
WHO IS LUCIFER ACCORDING TO FREEMASONRY?
Posted: 06 June 2019 08:15 AM   [ Ignore ]  
Newcomer
Rank
Total Posts:  15
Joined  2019-04-29

Reading one of the books by Albert Pike “Morals and Dogma” I get to see his argument concerning Lucifer as the bearor of light but not the angel of Darkness.
Who is Lucifer according to Freemasons?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 June 2019 09:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1354
Joined  2011-11-10

Nobody. Pike means very little - if anything, outside of a small (relatively) area of the US.

 Signature 

Richard
UGLE: Craft (PAGDC), Royal Arch (PProvGTreas)
Additional Orders: Mark, RAM, A&AR;, KT, KTP, ROS

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 June 2019 10:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
Newcomer
Rank
Total Posts:  15
Joined  2019-04-29
Richard George - 06 June 2019 09:21 AM

Nobody. Pike means very little - if anything, outside of a small (relatively) area of the US.

What do you mean by saying very small, maybe you still explain.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 June 2019 10:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
Moderator
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4099
Joined  2007-09-27

What Richard means is…..often people will make reference to Albert Pike, as if he somehow speaks for all Freemasons all over the world, and nothing could be further from the truth.  He wrote a long winded and meandering book many years ago, which was shared with members in his group of Freemasonry (Scottish Rite, southern jurisdiction) in one part of one country in a world of Freemasonry.  Outside of the southern jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite, nobody paid him much mind, nor would they have, if it weren’t for non-Masons bringing up that bit about Lucifer.

Pike did lots of religious pondering, and it’s often hard to follow, but first…understand that Lucifer is not Satan (even baptist ministers will point this out once they do their homework).  Pike wasn’t making such a reference and is no way saying that Satan has anything to do with Freemasonry, as many like to falsely assert. 

I know a good page that explains it, but I can’t remember the site.  I will try to find it, rather than try to rewrite it from memory.

 Signature 

Dan

1st District Membership Chairman - Boston, MA
Past Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
Friendship Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Wilmington, MA
The Lodge of the Royal Secret - Boston, MA
32┬░ Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Boston
Shriners International, Aleppo Temple - Wilmington, MA

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 June 2019 03:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  478
Joined  2014-03-28

A key point here is that Lucifer - whoever or whatever he is, was or may be - has nothing to do with Freemasonry.

Pike was a prolific writer, but his work is dreadfully hard to read, worse to make sense of and, critically, of precious little relevance to mainstream Freemasonry. His opus, *Morals and Dogma*, has been misquoted and misinterpreted over and over and over, mainly by people who know nothing about Freemasonry. For Freemasons who have a copy, it generally justifies its nickname as ‘the most-unfinished book in Masonry’.

Bottom line is that Albert Pike was an eccentric genius who, a long time ago, had a great deal of influence over just one part of a concordant body in one country. He never had authority over the entire Craft, nor was he ever in any way a spokesman for Freemasonry in general. Moreover, *Morals and Dogma* was at its heart Pike’s personal reflection on comparative religion, not a set of rules for the entire fraternity. Outside of one small fragment, Pike’s sway over Freemasonry is very, very limited and I honestly wouldn’t waste any further time wrestling over his meanings, because it will not help you in the slightest understand Masonry.

 Signature 

Bro. Bob
Calgary, AB

Initiated 1 March 1979
Passed 26 May 1979
Raised 18 October 1979
WM Zetland Lodge No. 83 - 2017

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 June 2019 04:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1354
Joined  2011-11-10

As I said on another thread; it was his esoteric documentary on his personal journey, and as such is really only relevant to him and not to anyone else.

 Signature 

Richard
UGLE: Craft (PAGDC), Royal Arch (PProvGTreas)
Additional Orders: Mark, RAM, A&AR;, KT, KTP, ROS

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 June 2019 08:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1478
Joined  2010-11-01
KIPTAI - 06 June 2019 08:15 AM

Reading one of the books by Albert Pike “Morals and Dogma” I get to see his argument concerning Lucifer as the bearor of light but not the angel of Darkness.
Who is Lucifer according to Freemasons?

Here we go,
This is the quote you are referencing:
“Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!”

http://www.masonicinfo.com/lucifer.htmGives a very good explanation of the quote and why it does not refer to the being you think it does. And, keep in mind that as a couple others here have stated, Morals and Dogma was Pike’s personal interpretation of the degrees of freemasonry as he experienced them and nothing more.

 Signature 

V:.W:.Paul Hulseapple
Past Master St. Georges Lodge #6
Schenectady, NY
Asst. Grand Lecturer Old 17th District
Feliciana Lodge #31
St. Francisville, LA

32┬░AASR
St Georges Chapter #157 RAM
High Priest

St. George’s Council #74 Cryptic Masons
Giles Fonda Yates Council #22 AMD
Sr. Warden

St. George’s Commandery #37
Oriental Shrine A.A.O.N.M.S

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 June 2019 05:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1019
Joined  2011-03-20
KIPTAI - 06 June 2019 08:15 AM

Reading one of the books by Albert Pike “Morals and Dogma” I get to see his argument concerning Lucifer as the bearor of light but not the angel of Darkness.
Who is Lucifer according to Freemasons?

Sorry to disappoint you but the name “Lucifer” does NOT appear within the Ceremonies or Lectures of Freemasonry.

However, you can turn to the Church to find out about Lucifer and you will be surprised that the name is not exclusively given to Satan, the Adversary at all, even Jesus was given it at point. You can read more here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09410a.htm

It may be that Pike was exploring this dichotomy!

 Signature 

Mike Martin
Click here for Mersey Lodge No.5434
Click here to chat about UK Freemasonry
Click here to view my Masonic watch fobs

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 June 2019 04:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
Newcomer
Rank
Total Posts:  15
Joined  2019-04-29

Then what does statue of Liberty mean?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 June 2019 06:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1354
Joined  2011-11-10

This is now getting silly. The statue was a gift from the people of France; not from the Freemasons of France.

Why don’t you go read the wikipedia entry on the subject? Yes there apparently is a plaque on a cornerstone, but there are (from the wiki) quite a few. My guess is that the cornerstone was laid by Freemasons - it used to be a common thing for masons to ceremoniously lay cornerstones.

In common with the question posed on one of your other threads, I now also have to ask why you are here?

 Signature 

Richard
UGLE: Craft (PAGDC), Royal Arch (PProvGTreas)
Additional Orders: Mark, RAM, A&AR;, KT, KTP, ROS

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 June 2019 07:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
Newcomer
Rank
Total Posts:  15
Joined  2019-04-29
Richard George - 08 June 2019 06:15 AM

In common with the question posed on one of your other threads, I now also have to ask why you are here?

I am here to learn and join once I have learned and shake off all the misconception and having a good reason to join. You all know of all this conspiracies yet you take me as if I know the truth about you.

I am not a RC Bishop nor even a member of that church, in fact I am a young man age 22 so how can I be a Bishop?

Someone used to tell me majority of the rich pastors who have formed some prominent Protestant churches are from this world secret societies and here is when I had that question.

Or what really do you mean by asking why I am here?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 June 2019 08:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1354
Joined  2011-11-10

The problem is that you appear to just be reiterating all the conspiracy theory questions, when some simple reading, both on these forums and elsewhere, have all been explained. You asked “Then what does the Statue of Liberty mean” - a meaningless question in itself, but a simple google search would probably have answered the question.

You say “someone used to tell me ...” and then go on to call Freemasonry a ‘secret society’ when -certainly the latter accusation, was answered -by me- on the other thread. Either you believe us or you don’t, and if not, we’re never going to convince you otherwise and further discussion would be pointless. I would hope though, that the reasonable answers you’ve been given so far have been fruitful.

Now, you question re: the origin of the ‘prominent Protestant churches’; I’m not entirely sure I see the point of the question - particularly in reference to Freemasonry. Yes, they may have been members, and yes, they may have been rich, I’ve no idea and it’s not relevant - and I fail to see why the question is important.

Remember; these forums are for people interested in joining to ask (sensible) questions; they’re not for debunking conspiracy theories - there are other forums elsewhere dedicated to that aspect.

So yes, I have to ask; why are you here? Is it that you’re genuinely interested in joining - in which case the questions I would expect to be more along the lines of ‘who do I contact’, and not the obsure questions you seem to be moving towards.

What ‘misconceptions’ do you have? - I’d suggest phrasing you questions along the lines of “I was told by xxx (friend/pastor/etc)”, “what they said was”, and “is it true”, and not (eg) “..then what does the Statue ..etc”.  That way we have a handle on whether the question is some misinformation you’ve been given, or that who told you has an ulterior motive. It also allows to understand where the question is coming from and what you’re trying to understand from the answer we give. And tell us a bit of background about yourself, it prevents the misunderstanding about ‘bishop’ and your religious beliefs - that also gives us some clarity about who’s asking the question.

Understand that the majority of the questions along the lines of the ones you’ve been asking originate from your area of the world, so it’s small wonder that we end up asking why you’re here - it’s fair to say that many -not all, I’ll give you that, are under the impression that we can make you rich or famous. I’m sure though, that you realise that’s not true, but you also have to accept that seeing the same questions time after time does eventually make one somewhat wary.

So, with that lot out of the way, shall we continue with, perhaps, more understanding on both sides?

 Signature 

Richard
UGLE: Craft (PAGDC), Royal Arch (PProvGTreas)
Additional Orders: Mark, RAM, A&AR;, KT, KTP, ROS

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 June 2019 08:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1354
Joined  2011-11-10

Oh and just so there’s no misunderstanding - about the Statue of Liberty .. I’m English and a UK citizen; I’m not American, so it means nothing to me, except that it’s a large chunk of metal standing on an island in the middle of New York harbour! :)

Whilst I can’t possibly know for certain, it was probably a gift from one (old) republic to another (new) one - a rarity when many countries at that time were monarchies.

 Signature 

Richard
UGLE: Craft (PAGDC), Royal Arch (PProvGTreas)
Additional Orders: Mark, RAM, A&AR;, KT, KTP, ROS

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 June 2019 10:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1019
Joined  2011-03-20
KIPTAI - 08 June 2019 07:22 AM

I am here to learn and join once I have learned and shake off all the misconception and having a good reason to join.

This is not how the joining process goes, you need to interact with Freemasons, in the real world, where you live to become a Freemason. There is no other way to know the truth.

KIPTAI - 08 June 2019 07:22 AM

You all know of all this conspiracies yet you take me as if I know the truth about you.

We gave you the benefit of the doubt that you are not so easily led as to believe the rubbish that some people freely post on the internet regarding conspiracies involving Freemasons but it would appear that was misplaced.

KIPTAI - 08 June 2019 07:22 AM

I am not a RC Bishop nor even a member of that church, in fact I am a young man age 22 so how can I be a Bishop?

You are the person who stated that you were a bishop not us! How are we supposed to know that you were not telling the truth?

KIPTAI - 08 June 2019 07:22 AM

Or what really do you mean by asking why I am here?

It is becoming obvious that you are just trolling this Forum, why else would you use the name of a famous Kenyan-born runner in your profile rather than your own? If you are actually interested reach out to the Freemasons in Nairobi and ask about it.

 Signature 

Mike Martin
Click here for Mersey Lodge No.5434
Click here to chat about UK Freemasonry
Click here to view my Masonic watch fobs

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 June 2019 10:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
Newcomer
Rank
Total Posts:  15
Joined  2019-04-29

I see a lot of misunderstanding but I think the reason is because you seem not to know why I am here due to lack of introduction to who I was before posting any question.

I am a Kenyan and Kiptai Shadrach is my real name and I have been interested in joining Freemasonry if it will only grow my spiritual life and at least have a group of people with a common mind in success of this world. I tried reading some of the books which in fact that has been the foundation of all my questions in this site even the question of Lucifer himself was from this books just as I stated above.

The information I had previously before reading any of the books or researching from the internet is that, Freemasonry is a secret society with an aim of confusing Gods people and one way they did this was to form several churches and many related staff. I personally worship on a sabbath and most of this misconception are from where I worship
I don’t believe in this personally nor think Freemasons make people rich but what I thought is that Freemasonry contain a better view of this world and might be able to answer some deep questions about human existence. I asked this question in another topic and was answered well.

For now I don’t see any reason to join Freemasonry if the main cornerstone is just the brotherhood and growing ones morality which I don’t see a guarantee of becoming of higher morality by joining Freemasonry.

I asked if there was a believe in life after death in another topic but has not been responded yet. I asked this because in one of Freemasons logo I saw the three words; Faith, Hope, and charity and I thought hope might be for immortality and wanted to know if any ritual or teachings concerning this exist among the Freemasons.

Since faith is a matter of choice and no fixed faith apart from believe in supreme being nor any discussion whatsoever concerning faith to be done in lodges I don’t see any importance of being a mason.

All I wanted here was to understand all that I have explained in this paragraphs and I thank all of you for your answers and time you dedicated in teaching the world about this misunderstood fraternity.

THANK YOU ALL.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 June 2019 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1354
Joined  2011-11-10

In case you do pick this up, I’ll clear up a couple of points for you.

1. No Freemason - to my knowledge, has ever founded a church - and certainly NOT to confuse people!  To be a Freemason, one (the individual) has to believe in God - the Supreme Being, by whatever name the individual’s particular faith calls Him. I’m a Christian (God), I have a friend who’s a Jew (Jehovah/YWHW), and another who’s a Muslim (Allah). All Freemasons’; but we agree not to discuss religion to avoid causing offence to each other. We all, in lodge, refer to Him as the Great Architect of the Universe for the same reason. I too worship on the Sabbath - Sunday in my case, Saturday in the case of my Jewish friend.

2. As far as the afterlife is concerned, yes, I believe in the afterlife - I’m a Christian. I also know that there are other religions who believe in a Supreme Being where the afterlife may not be the same ‘entity’ that I believe - but that’s nothing to do with Freemasonry; it’s to do with the religion that the individual follows. I would add though, that in English Freemasonry, the 3 virtues you mention are prominent in one of the orders restricted to Trinitarian Christians, and in that case, you would be correct.

I do think that if we’d had all your intro up front, the conversations would have been a lot easier, and a lot more profitable for you.

You might be interested to know that a couple of years ago I had a difficult time on the anniversary of my father’s death. I was struggling and close to tears.
It was the Muslim brother who followed me out of the room and sat and talked with me until I got to grips with the emotion of my loss. He even phoned me a couple of days later to check that I was ok, and offered to talk if ever I needed it.

Why would he do that?
Because we are Freemasons and Brothers in a way you cannot possibly understand, and that fellowship and friendship transcends the differences we have a religious individuals. THAT’S part of what being a Freemason means.

 Signature 

Richard
UGLE: Craft (PAGDC), Royal Arch (PProvGTreas)
Additional Orders: Mark, RAM, A&AR;, KT, KTP, ROS

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 2
1
 

© 2007 - 2011 The Grand Lodge of Masons in Massachusetts.

Page rendered in 0.2994 seconds.