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Religion and oaths.
Posted: 27 December 2018 04:05 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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Hey everyone. So I asked for a petition and I filled it out, got a few signatures and everything. I then went to my preacher and asked how he felt about Freemasonry. I attend the church of christ which is a non denominational church.He was telling me that Masonry is a religion and some guy said that theres a great lodge in heaven. He was also telling me that you take a blood oath and by doing that you’re in an oath with people who are not Christian’s but people who have different faiths, which is not allowed in the bible. I want to be a Freemason still but I need more information on this.

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Posted: 27 December 2018 06:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Your preacher is grossly misinformed!
There is no “blood oath” and Freemasonry is also non denominational.
Ask him to show you where it says that you can not unite in Brotherhood with men from other faiths, there is no such thing in the Good Book.
If he still has no good answers, get the book, “Freemasonry for Dummies” by Chris Hodap.
This book will give a very concise overview without revealing any of the so called “secrets”.

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Posted: 27 December 2018 06:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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First off, there is no ‘blood oath’. There is an ‘obligation’ (or oath), sworn on the holy book of one’s faith.


Secondly, Freemasonry is not - not - a religion. We have no specified holy book, do not offer sacraments, do not promise salvation. Beyond a belief in a Creator to whom we must all someday answer for our actions here on earth, all matters of faith are between a Mason and his own individual church or religion. We do encourage our members to attend the church of their own faith.


Thirdly, “in an oath with people who are not Christians…”  Like when you enlist in the Army and swear an oath of loyalty - along with fellow recruits who may be atheists, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs and so forth?

Or when becoming a cop and swearing an oath to uphold the law - with other cops swearing the same oath, other cops may not all be Christian? 

Or when being sworn in as a juror? 

Or when taking an oath to tell the truth in court? 

Or when becoming a citizen and swearing an oath of allegiance, along with other people in the room who may not all be Christians?

Does your pastor seriously consider those events are somehow against the Bible, too?  Really?

All it is is a promise to behave honorably.


Fourthly, yes, in my jurisdiction we use the phrase ‘the grand lodge above’ to refer to heaven, in the sense we would say that the late Brother Jones has ‘ascended to the grand lodge above’. It is an allegory, in the same way we Christians use allegory when we refer to Jesus as the ‘lamb of God’.  Nobody really thinks we are referring to Jesus as a small woolly animal, do they? Only allegory.


As a Christian and as a Mason for a couple of months short of 40 years, I have seen absolutely nothing in Freemasonry which conflicts in any way with Christianity, its beliefs, its priorities or its tenets. Indeed, I can honestly say that my membership in the Craft has deepened my Christian faith.

Now, let’s cut to the chase. There is a regretably large slice of Christianity which holds that we worship Satan, sacrifice babies, rule the world, blah blah blah. That sort of belief is based on long-refuted claims by hoaxers, misinterpretation and misunderstanding. That there is no basis for their claims is sad, but facts probably aren’t going to change their minds.

You seem a man of sincere faith and that is to be highly commended. No honest Mason would invite or expect you to deny your faith for Freemasonry. All I can advise you is to do the right thing, whatever you think that is.

God bless and good luck, sir.

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Calgary, AB

Initiated 1 March 1979
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Raised 18 October 1979
WM Zetland Lodge No. 83 - 2017

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Posted: 28 December 2018 03:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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I would also add to Bob’s comments; notice that your preacher contradicts himself….

In one breathe he says “it’s a religion” and then that “..oath with .. other faiths”. A bit contradictory don’t you think? - and I’d love to know where in the Bible it says you can’t interact with men of other faiths! - Jesus Himself preached the parable of “The Good Samaritan”. 

I personally know a Rabbi, an Archdeacon, a Canon (both in the Anglican Church), and I’ve heard the Queen’s Chaplain (who is also a mason) and was Archdeacon to the Army (and therefore Chaplain for every religion going) preach in Chelmsford Cathedral. That’s about an non-denominational as you can get.

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Posted: 02 January 2019 10:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Perhaps asking your sponsor to meet with the preacher to answer his questions may help. I know I would be willing to do that for someone I respected enough to sponsor.

sometimes, though, this is a pointless effort as many people who have these kinds of misconceptions don’t wish to be confused with the truth.

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God never sends us anything we can’t handle. Sometimes I wish He didn’t trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

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Posted: 03 January 2019 08:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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You should have gone to your Preacher first really. He clearly has an issue with Freemasonry which means that if you pursue membership it will cause you a problem with the practise of your faith.

The only Masonic advice that can be given is for you to tear up the Petition paperwork and apologise to the Lodge for wasting its time.

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Mike Martin
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Posted: 03 January 2019 04:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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I’m sorry, but that’s not a view I subscribe to. Why should another man - a man, not God, be able dictate what you can and can’t do regarding something that’s not illegal or morally wrong.  He can state his view, but for me, that as far as he can go. He can have his own view of the Fraternity, but if we believe and accept that each person is entitled to an opinion and a particular view of something, why should that not be something we would expect from others?  To the OP, I’d say; make your own decision about joining and not cow-tow to a prejudiced view; that decision is between you and the Deity; not between you and a close minded individual.

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Richard
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Posted: 03 January 2019 04:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Each year Lodges on both sides of the “pond” encourage Petitions from people that only a few minutes contemplation would have warned them against pushing to apply.

The effect this has is not just to lose the new Freemason but to erode the confidence of the remaining members, sometmes we need to remember that Freemasonry is NOT for everyone and that some people are better off being given the bad news sooner rather than later.

The enquirer’s post history is easy to see and he is NOT committed to joining, he does NOT have a favourable impression of Freemasonry and he clearly is not able to commit without the approval of people who have influence in and on his life. The most encouraging I could HONESTLY be is to say: “maybe you should consider membership in 10 or so years when you’re in your late 20s and better equipped to decide for yourself. Freemasonry will still be here,”

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Mike Martin
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Posted: 03 January 2019 04:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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That I WOULD agree with - and something I implied by saying “don’t allow others to dictate; make your own decision” - but then I’m looking at the situation with 61 years of experience behind me.

I normally try to look back at a poster’s history, but on this occasion (and this time of year), I failed to do so.  I would agree with the ‘wait’ philosophy in this instance.

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Richard
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Posted: 03 January 2019 04:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Richard George - 03 January 2019 04:43 PM

That I WOULD agree with - and something I implied by saying “don’t allow others to dictate; make your own decision” - but then I’m looking at the situation with 61 years of experience behind me.

I normally try to look back at a poster’s history, but on this occasion (and this time of year), I failed to do so.  I would agree with the ‘wait’ philosophy in this instance.

My own experience is not inconsiderable with 25 years as a Freemason combined with nearly 30 years involved with the Internet and its discussions about Freemasonry. During this time I have guided many to membership and also advised negatively where appropriate.

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Mike Martin
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Posted: 06 January 2019 04:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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I must, with respect, disagree with some of the recent comments.

What I see is a man who probably had no idea his pastor would object and who is making a good effort to understand, to be able to discuss the issue. To say, of instance, that he is wasting the lodge’s time is less than generous. And, to me, it definitely looks like he has a favorable impression of the Craft, it’s just that he has run into a person who is important in his life who does not and is trying to reconcile those two conflicting opinions.

Brethren, you are most certainly entitled to your opinions, but to me, charity - in all things - is key.

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Posted: 07 January 2019 04:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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But as I said Bob; he needs to make his own decision about joining and not be swayed by someone else’s prejudice.  From his earlier posts though, it’s apparent that he’s not yet 20 (or only just..) and doesn’t have the life experience that a few more years will bring.. All Mike and I are suggesting is that in a few years, assuming he still wants to join, he’ll be in a position of ‘of his own free will and accord’ and not swayed by the prejudice of someone who obviously doesn’t have a ‘favourable opinion preconceived of the institution’.  It also gives him time to better get to know the members and they him - and that’ll give him the strength to stand up to his preacher and tell him he’s wrong.  I came up against a priest (female) when we got married; when I told her more about what we’re about, her stance changed - but I was only able to do that with the life experience behind me.

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Richard
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