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Posted: 22 September 2017 09:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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PDH825 - 22 September 2017 06:05 AM
hanzer - 21 September 2017 10:59 AM

My goal isn’t to get your goat, “Master Mason”.

Then what IS your goal?

My goal in this thread has changed quite a bit. I had no idea so many Barn Monkeys were running loose in your House. (Emphases for those who don’t grok metaphor). I am generating a somewhat new view of what I guess is an ideal of social organization here.

Playfulness aside, honest communication between adults about serious and subtle issues can’t really take place in a mosh pit. Given the character of your community, some of you might find utility in private, secret, and anonymous communication techniques.

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Posted: 22 September 2017 09:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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hanzer - 22 September 2017 09:18 AM
PDH825 - 22 September 2017 06:05 AM
hanzer - 21 September 2017 10:59 AM

My goal isn’t to get your goat, “Master Mason”.

Then what IS your goal?

My goal in this thread has changed quite a bit. I had no idea so many Barn Monkeys were running loose in your House. (Emphases for those who don’t grok metaphor). I am generating a somewhat new view of what I guess is an ideal of social organization here.

Playfulness aside, honest communication between adults about serious and subtle issues can’t really take place in a mosh pit. Given the character of your community, some of you might find utility in private, secret, and anonymous communication techniques.

I only see one person in this exchange who has chosen to remain anonymous.

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John Ruggiero
Master, Ancient York Lodge AF&AM;, Lowell, MA, USA

“God never sends us anything we can’t handle. Sometimes I wish He didn’t trust me so much.” - Mother Teresa

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Posted: 23 September 2017 03:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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In an environment where hateful stupidity is allowed to run amok and the ambitious moron is given the authority to promulgate its injustice, widely available secure communication is an especially good thing, IMO.

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Posted: 25 September 2017 12:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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What exactly are you looking for?  Your postings are not making any sense.

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W:.Paul Hulseapple
Master St. Georges Lodge #6
Schenectady, NY
Feliciana Lodge #31
St. Francisville, LA

32°AASR Valley of Schenectady
St Georges Chapter #157 Royal Arch Masons
Scribe

St. George’s Council # 74 Cryptic Masons
Giles Fonda Yates Council #22 AMD
Jr. Warden

St. George’s Commandery #37
Oriental Shrine A.A.O.N.M.S.

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Posted: 25 September 2017 01:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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PDH825 - 25 September 2017 12:03 PM

What exactly are you looking for?  Your postings are not making any sense.

Hi Paul,

I apologize if many of my posts in this thread seem terse, dense, or otherwise cryptic. The intention was to have a sincere conversation about the institution and in doing so, assess the character of some of its members. Based on what I see in this forum, my current speculative critical analysis is that Freemasonry looks like a dominance-hierarchy of gang-like men’s clubs based on the sham of human assessment and development technology that has long since degenerated into little more than a Cargo Cult. (I am, perhaps too generously, assuming here that the technology was once effective).

If this is not entirely the case, and some people are still inspired, trained, and developed into self-regulating, conscientious, thinking people of epistemological sophistication and intellectual integrity and moral wisdom, then I applaud you. However, (something to consider) from what I see here I doubt the institution actually helped you that much. You were probably going to find the inspiration and devices elsewhere and get there on your own anyway…

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Posted: 25 September 2017 01:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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hanzer - 25 September 2017 01:08 PM
PDH825 - 25 September 2017 12:03 PM

What exactly are you looking for?  Your postings are not making any sense.

Hi Paul,

Based on what I see in this forum, my current speculative critical analysis is that Freemasonry looks like a dominance-hierarchy of gang-like men’s clubs based on the sham of human assessment and development technology that has long since degenerated into little more than a Cargo Cult. (I am, perhaps too generously, assuming here that the technology was once effective).

First off, I would like to know on what grounds you are basing your analysis.  What you are describing is in no way what the fraternity is about so your assessment that we are a dominance-hierarchy of gang-like men’s clubs is simply wrong.  I would feel 100% safe in surmising that you have never even approached an actual lodge before.  Contrary to what many believe, we will show you our lodge buildings and rooms, all you need to do is ask.

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W:.Paul Hulseapple
Master St. Georges Lodge #6
Schenectady, NY
Feliciana Lodge #31
St. Francisville, LA

32°AASR Valley of Schenectady
St Georges Chapter #157 Royal Arch Masons
Scribe

St. George’s Council # 74 Cryptic Masons
Giles Fonda Yates Council #22 AMD
Jr. Warden

St. George’s Commandery #37
Oriental Shrine A.A.O.N.M.S.

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Posted: 25 September 2017 02:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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Sorry Paul, I guess we’re probably not using the same models, perspectives, and frameworks to gauge, qualify, and interpret what’s being said.

By “gang like” and “dominance hierarchy” I am referring to development, value system, and organization of:

Person
Culture
Society

(You understand ^these^ are web links, right? (Middle-button mouse click on one will most likely open it in a new browser tab))

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Posted: 25 September 2017 03:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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OK.  You are reading far too much into it.  We are a Fraternity.  Our main focus is on self improvement.  That is, each man decides for himself how to interpret and employ the various lessons found in our ritual to make himself a better person.  He defines better by his own measure and basis his progress on where he was, where he sees himself currently and where he would like to go.  His definition of right and wrong is a combination of not only socially accepted guidelines but also on the Faith of his acceptance.  In your initial post, you questioned the need for this expression of Faith.  My response to that is, yes it is necessary.  It is something personal that each individual has within them and it is something that we use as a commonality, rather than a difference.  We rely on our Faith to draw us together and not push us apart.

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W:.Paul Hulseapple
Master St. Georges Lodge #6
Schenectady, NY
Feliciana Lodge #31
St. Francisville, LA

32°AASR Valley of Schenectady
St Georges Chapter #157 Royal Arch Masons
Scribe

St. George’s Council # 74 Cryptic Masons
Giles Fonda Yates Council #22 AMD
Jr. Warden

St. George’s Commandery #37
Oriental Shrine A.A.O.N.M.S.

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Posted: 25 September 2017 03:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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You seem like a nice guy, Paul, and I can imagine that the experience of fraternity and fidelity within the Lodge community can generate very comforting and endearing feelings. I don’t want to hurt your feelings, but as I understand it, this is a vast, longstanding institution that still has significant influence in the world. Maintenance and modernization might be a good idea…

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Posted: 25 September 2017 06:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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Um no.  Modernization really is not needed in terms of how we operate internally.  Our operations and methods are time tested and work quite well. All too often we run into well meaning folks like yourself that seem to think we are doing something the “wrong” way. Certain things we have modernized, like the web presence and such. These are for informational purposes only. Other things like our ritual have remained pretty much in tact for 300 years in the current form. They are the way they are for a reason and are not likely to change any time soon. Our ceremonies are designed to leave you wondering “what next”. The what next is up to you to figure out. We give you tools for you to use in getting to the next step. We do not give you what that next step is. Mainly because we can’t.  Not that we don’t want to or have are prevented from telling you but because it simply cannot be communicated that way. I can only describe to you what the next step or answers are for me. I cannot tell you what the steps or answers are for Joe or Pete or Eric, etc.

Yes, the fraternity is large and long standing. It does not however have any influence on the world. Regardless of what the conspiracy theorists or anti masonic groups may ramble on about, the fraternity controls nothing. Our meetings do not revolve around controlling the value of the dollar or keeping this group back and allowing this group to thrive. Sad to say it but a lot of the meetings are pay this bill, pay the rent, argue over what charity to support this time.  That sort of thing. I try to bring some type of educational presentation to my Lodge but the time left for that is usually very limited.  I have seen many folks with the same questions as you and my answer is always the same. You have to experience it to know what it is about. You cannot simply read about it.  Besides, a lot of what is out there is written by those who only think they know.  They make up the parts they don’t understand.

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W:.Paul Hulseapple
Master St. Georges Lodge #6
Schenectady, NY
Feliciana Lodge #31
St. Francisville, LA

32°AASR Valley of Schenectady
St Georges Chapter #157 Royal Arch Masons
Scribe

St. George’s Council # 74 Cryptic Masons
Giles Fonda Yates Council #22 AMD
Jr. Warden

St. George’s Commandery #37
Oriental Shrine A.A.O.N.M.S.

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Posted: 25 September 2017 07:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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PDH825 - 25 September 2017 06:11 PM

[snip] Yes, the fraternity is large and long standing. It does not however have any influence on the world. [snip]

Quibbling really isn’t my thing but it might be interesting to slightly change the focus a bit on this particular issue. There could be around a million Master Masons in the United Sates Grand Lodges. Other sources estimate about five million current members worldwide. That is an institution that has *significant* influence: it lives in five million people. There is also some brick & mortar infrastructure - libraries, museums, lodges. And many people who are not members are nonetheless aware of its presence and are affected by the influence it has on its participants.

Granted, the trend in membership population doesn’t look good for the institution, and its influence in the world (as described above) is, as a consequent, rapidly dwindling.

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Posted: 25 September 2017 08:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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The bottom line is this, YOU are asking to join Freemasonry not the other way around. Therefore you must meet the requirements of the established Fraternity. They do not have to meet yours. Our requirements are:

1) You be a legally aged adult male
2) You believe in a Supreme Deity. And depending on the jurisdiction it could have more restrictions to this area such as belief in an immortal soul and an afterlife.
3) You be a man of good character and integrity.

If you feel that you can meet these requirements then please by all means ask a mason for a petition. If you do not then maybe Freemasonry is not the organization for you.

Now, if you are not asking these things because you are interested in Freemasonry then maybe you need to quit wasting your time and move on. The fraternity has been around for at least 300 years as an organized fraternity and even longer as individual lodges. I don’t think your views will change things.

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Bro. David Howard
Jr Grand Deacon - GL of Alabama F & AM
Sr. Warden - Howard E. Palmes Lodge #917, Mobile, Alabama

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Posted: 25 September 2017 08:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
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It is not dwindling as you think, it is self adjusting to it’s pre-war levels.
The post ww2 boom in membership was an aberation, not the norm.

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Past Master, Dryden Lodge #472
Secretary, Caroline Lodge #618
Hudson,Fulton,Dryden Chapter #250 OES
32* A&ASR; Coudersport Pa.
RAM Fidelity #77

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Posted: 25 September 2017 09:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
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Bro DHoward - 25 September 2017 08:49 PM

[snip] YOU are asking to join Freemasonry [snip]

That seems to be a thoroughly entrenched assumption here.

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Posted: 25 September 2017 09:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
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W Br Gleason - 25 September 2017 08:50 PM

It is not dwindling as you think, it is self adjusting to it’s pre-war levels.
The post ww2 boom in membership was an aberation, not the norm.

I would find it very interesting to review longer term, world wide Mason census data if you have any references or links to it that can be shared.

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