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Foreboding feeling after handing in the petition any feed back would be wonderful
Posted: 25 May 2017 08:20 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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Hi gentlemen I have a situation I’d like to explain and a question that follows. I am a kind of modern pagan, some would say a wiccan some would say a witch others the more broad neo pagan. I have been meeting with my local blue lodge for pre meeting meals the hour prior to the lodge sessions. Since day one I made it clear that despite believing in many gods and goddesses that above all I believe in one supreme being , the creator, the energy source from which all things are born. This Devine source of creation sustenance and life is referred to as Akasha. The best way to explain my believe is they Akasha the supreme being is metaphorically a many faceted crystal and all the facets are the different attributes and traits of Akasha and each facet and collection of attributes has a name of a god/dess attached to it these include all the mainstream gods as well. I don’t know if I put this in an understandable way, the other way I’ve heard it explained is a comparison to Catholicism structure only the gods are the saints and Akasha is God and the trilogy of mother maiden and crone relate to the Devine trilogy of father son and Holy Ghost. Any way the men I talked to said my belief were acceptable and so I haven’t been worried about it but last night a man I have not met was talking to me and we finished talking and I turned to talk to the man on my other side and out of nowhere the first man grabs my hand will I’m talking to someone else and starts to pull it toward him surprised by this I stopped talking and turned to the man who then questioned my pentacle ring I tried to explain my religion but the vibe I got off him was truly unnerving and surly not positive.  I know believe in a supreme being and everlasting soul is all I need but and I know of many pagan brothers but I’m worried I just met the man who will be my first black ball. The worshipful master of the other hand seems to really like me should I talk to him and tell him I’m concerned about biased votes from that one man?

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Posted: 25 May 2017 09:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Good news. bad news, I’m afraid.

The good news is that believing in a supreme deity is all that is required. My lodge has men of at least four faiths (if there is a Wiccan, it would be five). As you explain your belief system, it would certainly be acceptable to me were I balloting on your application.

The bad news is that all it takes is one member (in some jurisdictions, two) to block your application and that individual need not explain their reasons. You could talk to the Master of the lodge, perhaps talk to the individual in question (many people still confuse Wicca with Satanism.)

I wish you luck.

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Zetland Lodge No. 83
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Posted: 25 May 2017 09:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Perhaps you could speak to the Master of the lodge about your experience and get his opinion.  If I were Master and that happened to me, I would most likely speak to the brother in question and get his views on the matter.  Harmony is very important to the Master of the lodge, and he would likely go out of his way to ensure it, even if it meant some difficult conversations.

It could be that the Master could speak on your behalf if he was so inclined.

Just a suggestion.

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Past Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
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Shriners International, Aleppo Temple - Wilmington, MA

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Posted: 25 May 2017 09:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Thank you guys for the advice I will act on it. The thing is , I don’t know if that man is in the lodge I petitioned I have been going for three months and never saw him last night was an informal gathering and many men were visiting from lodges in the other county on Long Island. If he is not from this lodge would his opinion hold any bearing on the vote?

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Posted: 25 May 2017 10:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Sideshowthomas - 25 May 2017 09:33 AM

Thank you guys for the advice I will act on it. The thing is , I don’t know if that man is in the lodge I petitioned I have been going for three months and never saw him last night was an informal gathering and many men were visiting from lodges in the other county on Long Island. If he is not from this lodge would his opinion hold any bearing on the vote?

If he isn’t in that lodge…he doesn’t have a vote.  That doesn’t mean he can’t do a “do you know what that guy said?” to a voting member.  Sad but true, it could happen.  Again, a reason why I suggest talking to the WM.  He might even be able to speak before the lodge to educate people a bit about your faith so that they will feel comfortable with it.

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Dan

Past Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
Senior Deacon, Friendship Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Wilmington, MA
32° Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Boston
Shriners International, Aleppo Temple - Wilmington, MA

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Posted: 25 May 2017 10:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Thank you all very much for you feedback and advice. Since I can remember I have always wanted to be a part of the brotherhood and every one I talked to about my belief system and how I define it agrees that I fit the requirement for supreme being and everlasting soul, that is up till now so I was blindsided leaving me worried but after talking to you I see hope is not lost and there is still light at the end of the tunnel. I will talk to the WM as soon as I can about my concerns, thanks

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Posted: 25 May 2017 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Good news is that in NY, it takes 3 to reject an applicant.  The investigating committee also has a say in the matter and they will make a report to the lodge prior to a vote.  As for what the others have suggested, I fully agree with them.

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Posted: 25 May 2017 01:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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In my jurisdiction it only takes one black cube to stop entry into the lodge. I understand it take three in some jurisdictions. From one of the entries here it seems in some it takes two. Irregardless, talking to the WM surely can not hurt and may very well help. Also speaking to the man who seemed to have a problem with your ring may be a good idea. Good luck and please keep us informed of your progress.

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Posted: 25 May 2017 01:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Thanks,From what I’ve been told this lodge requires three black cubes to be rejected so I may be stressing my self out more than is needed. I’ll try to find out that gentleman’s name so I can reach out to him.  Whatever the out come I will keep you gents informed.

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Posted: 25 May 2017 01:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Sideshowthomas - 25 May 2017 01:37 PM

Thanks,From what I’ve been told this lodge requires three black cubes to be rejected so I may be stressing my self out more than is needed. I’ll try to find out that gentleman’s name so I can reach out to him.  Whatever the out come I will keep you gents informed.

Since you got my attention with the “irregardless”, a reminder that all Masons posting on this forum must include their lodge and location in their profile.  :)

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Dan

Past Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
Senior Deacon, Friendship Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Wilmington, MA
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Shriners International, Aleppo Temple - Wilmington, MA

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Posted: 25 May 2017 02:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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I’m sorry but I’m afraid I’m slightly confused, you reposted my last post but you quoted someone else’s post too, so I’m not really sure who your talking to but I updated my profile to reflect that I am not yet a mason only a petitioner .

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Posted: 25 May 2017 02:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Sideshowthomas - 25 May 2017 02:27 PM

I’m sorry but I’m afraid I’m slightly confused, you reposted my last post but you quoted someone else’s post too, so I’m not really sure who your talking to but I updated my profile to reflect that I am not yet a mason only a petitioner .

Yeah, my bad.  I read HIS post, and then looked and saw your name and noticed there was not info, and confused the two.  No worries.  I just wanted to jump at the chance to rib a brother for using the word “irregardless” (you know, grammar, rhetoric, logic, and all being so important) :)

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Dan

Past Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
Senior Deacon, Friendship Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Wilmington, MA
32° Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Boston
Shriners International, Aleppo Temple - Wilmington, MA

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Posted: 25 May 2017 02:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Sideshowthomas - 25 May 2017 08:20 AM

Any way the men I talked to said my belief were acceptable and so I haven’t been worried about it but last night a man I have not met was talking to me and we finished talking and I turned to talk to the man on my other side and out of nowhere the first man grabs my hand will I’m talking to someone else and starts to pull it toward him surprised by this I stopped talking and turned to the man who then questioned my pentacle ring I tried to explain my religion but the vibe I got off him was truly unnerving and surly not positive.

You may be overreacting to his overreaction.

The pentacle/pentagram is one of the world’s most misunderstood symbols (right up there with the swastika and inverted crucifix). As I’m sure you already know it has no fixed symbolism other than representing an idea linked with the number 5 (we use it within Freemasonry). However, learning about wider symbolism is not compulsory for Freemasons and he may have just assumed that you as a non-Mason might be wearing it as an adherent of the Adversary.

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Posted: 25 May 2017 02:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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In fact, the Order of the Easter Star, a group dependently linked to Freemasonry, uses the pantacle as the main symbol of their order.

hey….just tell him it is an Eastern Star ring!  :)

(kidding about that part of course)

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Dan

Past Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
Senior Deacon, Friendship Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Wilmington, MA
32° Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Boston
Shriners International, Aleppo Temple - Wilmington, MA

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Posted: 25 May 2017 03:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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:) I told him it represents the four elements with spirit or god above all and the Pythagorean symbolism of the devine proportion. Then he asked if I was pagan, and I have home my definition ...

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Posted: 25 May 2017 04:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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Mike Martin - 25 May 2017 02:30 PM

The pentacle/pentagram is one of the world’s most misunderstood symbols (right up there with the swastika and inverted crucifix). As I’m sure you already know it has no fixed symbolism other than representing an idea linked with the number 5 (we use it within Freemasonry). However, learning about wider symbolism is not compulsory for Freemasons and he may have just assumed that you as a non-Mason might be wearing it as an adherent of the Adversary.

Indeed. I teach our new brethren that a symbol means whatever you want it to mean. The Christian church used pentagrams and pentangles (Inclding inverted ones) fairly often at one time, five being held sacred due to the five wounds of Christ. Now some consider it Satanistic. OK, it may be for them, but it doesn’t have to mean that for everybody. Similarly, to insist that a disembodied eye must represent the Eye of Horus overlooks its common usage by Christians until quite recently as the Eye of Providence.

Sadly, the internet feeds the fears of the fearful, the gulible and the paranoid.

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Zetland Lodge No. 83
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Initiated 1 March 1979
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