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A question that may be the answer to what ive been searching for. Brace yourselves. :)
Posted: 15 May 2017 11:58 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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On ones a own(not a brother of the fraternity), can the veil of night(darkness) be lifted? To the best of any fraternity members knowledge, has it ever been done without assistance?  Can one become a Master and take the Masters path without help from ” the children of light” and then become a child of light himself(Master)?

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Posted: 16 May 2017 01:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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I suspect that you are thinking of something other than Freemasonry!

However and in case you’re just getting carried away, Freemasonry is an Initiatory Fraternity which means you can ONLY become a Freemason by being Initiated by existing Freemasons.

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Posted: 16 May 2017 06:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Becoming a member of the frat, not exactly what I was inquiring about. I’m a little beyond “seeking and knocking”.

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Posted: 16 May 2017 07:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Blackballed - 16 May 2017 06:34 AM

Becoming a member of the frat, not exactly what I was inquiring about. I’m a little beyond “seeking and knocking”.

Nothing in our lessons is unavailable to anyone of morality and faith. Our lessons are the same as those taught in Sunday school and at our grandmother’s knee. We just have a particularly good delivery method.

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“God never sends us anything we can’t handle. Sometimes I wish He didn’t trust me so much.” - Mother Teresa

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Posted: 16 May 2017 07:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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There seem to be two possible questions in what you are asking.

The first might be could you ever become a Master without being a Freemason? Well, perhaps, but a Master of what? In Masonry, the word has two connotations, one being the elected ‘president’ of a lodge, the other being a the third degree rank name. So, I guess, you could find or invent an organization which would fill those niches for you, but it would not be regular Freemasonry and your efforts would not be recognized by regular Masons.

You could even read all of our rituals (and they are just about all out there on the web and library shelves - amidst a hundred times more garbage purporting to be real). Sadly, like like one’s first kiss, there are some things which have to be experienced to be understood in fullness. As I (a man) will for instance never completely understand the experience of childbirth, so a man who has not actually gone through the initiatory process will never fully understand Freemasonry.

Indeed, that is one reason we ourselves to not publish our rituals. 300 years of experience has shown us that our lessons are far more effective when experienced for the first time, cold as it were. Prior investigation and awareness by the candidate would render them less effective.

The second question might be whether or not it is possible to improve oneself without being a Mason. Here the answer is much more positive. I think very few Masons would say that we are the only system of morality, the only way to attain moral enlightenment. There are realms of other systems out there, just about all open to you.

Good luck.

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Posted: 16 May 2017 07:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Perhaps someone that is familiar with that I speak can answer this more clearly. I am not interested in your teachings nor the “secrets” of the craft. I am only concerned with the veil and and it’s properties. If you do not have an inclination as to what I speak of then it’s best not to leave your suggested oppinion. There are those Masons that know what I speak of and it is they who I ask. I can only hope there are a few on this forum that can discuss this with me.

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Posted: 16 May 2017 08:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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My friend, I fear that you have been mislead.

This mysterious ‘veil’ of which you speak - as a Mason, I can tell you that you are chasing a chimera. To be sure, the word appears here and there in the Craft, but it is invariably symbolic, usually aimed at teaching a lesson, emphasizing a point or inculcating a desirable train of thought.

I suspect that you will not believe me and, indeed, it would have been simpler not to reply. Yet you are entitled to the truth and you have asked an open question. The irony is that those who might invent something about ‘veils’ to please you will, I fear, win your approval only with a falsehood.

This pattern is familiar, sadly. Those caught in it are not really looking for the truth. Truth is often banal, disappointing and so it is all too often discarded or ignored. Rather, what is sought is mere affirmation of an already-existing belief.

It is of course your choice, but you have been given the truth. What you decide to do with it is up to you.

Again, good luck. I do hope you find your way.

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Zetland Lodge No. 83
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Initiated 1 March 1979
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Posted: 16 May 2017 08:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Lark - 16 May 2017 08:18 AM

My friend, I fear that you have been mislead.

This mysterious ‘veil’ of which you speak - as a Mason, I can tell you that you are chasing a chimera. To be sure, the word appears here and there in the Craft, but it is invariably symbolic, usually aimed at teaching a lesson, emphasizing a point or inculcating a desirable train of thought.

I suspect that you will not believe me and, indeed, it would have been simpler not to reply. Yet you are entitled to the truth and you have asked an open question. The irony is that those who might invent something about ‘veils’ to please you will, I fear, win your approval only with a falsehood.

This pattern is familiar, sadly. Those caught in it are not really looking for the truth. Truth is often banal, disappointing and so it is all too often discarded or ignored. Rather, what is sought is mere affirmation of an already-existing belief.

It is of course your choice, but you have been given the truth. What you decide to do with it is up to you.
Again, good luck. I do hope you find your way.

What he said!

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Posted: 16 May 2017 09:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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The Emerald tablets of Thoth. This is what I speak of. The only other mason that I know that can speak to me directly regarding this is Brother Robert Lund. He has been more than nice to me and willing to discuss things of this nature. I prefer not to pic his brain to the point of exhaust. It was through him that I received this information and wish to continue learn more from it. . I believe this information to be exactly what I have been seeking. Thoth provides detailed direction on how to reach enlightenment and it is this which I wish to persue. I do not seek that which the church or the fraternity offers, I know this for certain now. After entering into a space in meditation for the first time (literally I was in space, call me crazy if you wish) I was terrified and have yet to even try meditation again. After studying the emerald tablets there is no doubt that I am on the correct path. As it is so that I found so many similarities between Thoth’s “children of light” and the masons of the craft and how they “guard the secrets of the light” I assumed that it would be best to ask those familiar with what I speak of.

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Posted: 16 May 2017 10:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Blackballed - 16 May 2017 09:11 AM

The Emerald tablets of Thoth. This is what I speak of. The only other mason that I know that can speak to me directly regarding this is Brother Robert Lund. He has been more than nice to me and willing to discuss things of this nature. I prefer not to pic his brain to the point of exhaust. It was through him that I received this information and wish to continue learn more from it. . I believe this information to be exactly what I have been seeking. Thoth provides detailed direction on how to reach enlightenment and it is this which I wish to persue. I do not seek that which the church or the fraternity offers, I know this for certain now. After entering into a space in meditation for the first time (literally I was in space, call me crazy if you wish) I was terrified and have yet to even try meditation again. After studying the emerald tablets there is no doubt that I am on the correct path. As it is so that I found so many similarities between Thoth’s “children of light” and the masons of the craft and how they “guard the secrets of the light” I assumed that it would be best to ask those familiar with what I speak of.

It appears that my first inclination was correct, you’re in the wrong place my friend.

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Posted: 16 May 2017 01:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Yup, you’ve lost me too.  The emerald WHAT? 

From everything you’ve posted on here, I would say you’ve been led highly astray by the “friend” of yours.  Nothing you’ve spoken of has anything to do with Freemasonry, and in fact, I’m pretty sure that your “friend” is being extremely untruthful with you.

Now…you can believe real Freemasons, or you can continue to believe the baffling stories you have been fed, but if it is the later, I suggest that this forum is not the place for you.  We represent the Fraternity of Freemasonry.  You should take notice of the fact that we all (from different parts of the world) agree on what we’ve told you.

There are some Masons who like to delve into the symbolism of the hermetic, or that of alchemy, and may find connections here, entirely outside of our ritual, and that may be your one connection to the Emerald Tablet, but any connection would be a VERY dotted line, and doesn’t provide some true hidden meaning in Freemasonry.

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Posted: 16 May 2017 03:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Are you perchance talking about the guy who’s a member of the church of latter day saints?

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Posted: 16 May 2017 03:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Richard George - 16 May 2017 03:52 PM

Are you perchance talking about the guy who’s a member of the church of latter day saints?

http://freemasoninformation.com/2016/05/author-interview-rob-lund-on-the-hidden-code-in-freemasonry/

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Posted: 16 May 2017 04:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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That’s just it. I wasn’t fed any baffling stories by anyone. This is knowledge gathered by myself after Robert Lund (A Mason) shared information about the Emerald tablets. Yet again the Masonic Goonie Squad here on the forum decides to take my post and make it 100% about Masonic rituals, secrets how i will never figure anything out of I’m not a mason(that is not my concern). I seek other Masons that may have knowledge on the Emerald tablets and the secrets of Thoth. If there are any here then please message me. I do not need to be told at every turn that I “am in the wrong place”. Just because you have no clue what I am seeking or think it doesn’t apply to masons. It does not go to say that another mason may not have something positive or helpful to offer to the conversation. Thank you.

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Posted: 16 May 2017 10:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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Blackballed - 16 May 2017 04:03 PM

That’s just it. I wasn’t fed any baffling stories by anyone. This is knowledge gathered by myself after Robert Lund (A Mason) shared information about the Emerald tablets. Yet again the Masonic Goonie Squad here on the forum decides to take my post and make it 100% about Masonic rituals, secrets how i will never figure anything out of I’m not a mason(that is not my concern). I seek other Masons that may have knowledge on the Emerald tablets and the secrets of Thoth. If there are any here then please message me. I do not need to be told at every turn that I “am in the wrong place”. Just because you have no clue what I am seeking or think it doesn’t apply to masons. It does not go to say that another mason may not have something positive or helpful to offer to the conversation. Thank you.

Let me put it to you plainly, we are a fraternity.  Some of us, especially after a couple of scotches, would be delighted to discuss the subjects you bring up but they have absolutely nothing to do with Freemasonry. Our lessons are simple but can take a lifetime to fully understand.

You may think I am uninformed or ignorant of these truths you have come across and you would be right. I am, however,  the Master of my lodge and was just elected to serve for a third consecutive year in that chair. I am also a 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason.  There isn’t much in regular masonry that I have not been exposed to. This is the first time any of us here, many with more knowledge than I, have even heard of the tablets of thoth.  Take it from me, you’re barking up the wrong tree.

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John Ruggiero
Master, Ancient York Lodge AF&AM;, Lowell, MA, USA

“God never sends us anything we can’t handle. Sometimes I wish He didn’t trust me so much.” - Mother Teresa

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Posted: 16 May 2017 10:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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I am at the very edge and would hardly been comfortable saying I’m an amateur, at best.  Yes there are Masons who are knowledgeable about Hermetic teachings and the like.  However, this website is designed to answer questions about joining the fraternity.  If you are looking for Masons to discuss this topic you will be disappointed as most have not went down that path.

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I’m living in the DC area now.

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