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Grand orient of egypt ” RITO ORIENTALE DI MEMPHIS
Posted: 25 January 2017 02:48 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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I AM TRYING TO FIND OUT THE NAME OF THE GRAND MASTER OF LODGE NO# ( 270 A) GENERAL MATRICULATION NO# ( 674) IN ALEXANDRIA EGYPT DURING THE PERIOD FROM 1890 - 1900
THE INFORMATION IS REQUIRED TO VERIFY AN ANCIENT CERTIFICATE THAT I HAVE COME ACROSS DATED 1893
THE CERTIFICATE IS IN ITALIAN AND ARABIC
THE CERTIFICATE TALKES ABOUT UPGRADING A MASON FROM GRAD 42 TO GRAD 90 ?? I AM NOT SURE IF THOSE GRADES EXIST ?
THE CERTIFCATE HAS 3 CIRCULAR PRESSED STAMPS, ONE I CAN ONLY COMPARE TO A LOGO ON THE INTERNET ” GRAND ORIENTOE D’EGITTO ” THE OTHER 2 STAMPS I CAN’T FIND ANY WHERE, YET THE TEXT IS CLEAR ” ORIENTAL RIGHTS OF MEMPHIS “

ANY HELP WOULD BE HIGHLY APPRECIATED

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Posted: 26 January 2017 05:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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I guess the above bodies you are asking about, are irregular bodies , and not recognised by mainstream masonry, and i don’t think this is the right place to acquire such information.

Good Luck.

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Nour Al Ayyash

Lodge Trinity #1846 / Founding Member / J.W
Lodge King Hiram #1351/ Treasurer
(Under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge Of Scotland)

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Tripoly Chapter # 773 for the Holy Royal Arch

32° AASR S.J .Valley Of Washington

March on. Do not tarry. To go forward is to move toward perfection.
“Khalil Gibran”

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Posted: 26 January 2017 05:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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thanks for the information:

but according to the historic recorded data i don’t think it was an irregular lodge:

quote from wikipedia:
” reemasonry being extremely popular then, English Masons were not far behind the other nations. Between 1862 and 1871 they formed eight Lodges directly under the United Grand Lodge of England, namely St. John, No. 919, 1862 - 1877, Hyde Clark, No. 1082, 1865 - 1869, St. John and St. Paul, No. 1154, 1867 - 1872, Zetland, No. 1157, 1867 - 1956, Albert Edward Lodge, No. 1291, consecrated in 1969, all in Alexandria; La Concordia, No. 1226, 1868 - 1890, working in Italian in Cairo; Bulwer Lodge of Cairo, No. 1068 in 1865, Grecia, No. 1105 in 1866, both in Cairo and still working, and Kawkab el Sharq, (Star of the East) No.1355, 1871 - 1956, also in Cairo.”

I am only trying to shed some light on the truth here,

thank you for your answer

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Posted: 26 January 2017 06:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Sir, your wikipedia quote does not say anything about 90th degree or whatsoever, Plus i would not rely on any of the info on wikipedia, since anyone can edit, and a big portion of the info needs updating and correcting.

You welcome

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Nour Al Ayyash

Lodge Trinity #1846 / Founding Member / J.W
Lodge King Hiram #1351/ Treasurer
(Under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge Of Scotland)

District Grand Director Of Music

Tripoly Chapter # 773 for the Holy Royal Arch

32° AASR S.J .Valley Of Washington

March on. Do not tarry. To go forward is to move toward perfection.
“Khalil Gibran”

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Posted: 26 January 2017 08:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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OK, this can get very complicated, very quickly, but I will try to keep it simple.

Accept one fact as a start. There is no monolithic Masonic body and no central records exist. Freemasonry is ruled by on the order of 150 completely independent grand lodges – just for the normal Masonic lodges. Then there are dozens of legitimate appendant and concordant bodies, ones with ties to Freemasonry. Each of those is independent and self-governing, again often with control being split geographically. In other words, Masonic records are scattered across the globe.

Then there are irregular, fringe and clandestine bodies which claim to be Masonic. There are an unknown number of these, but they are not real Masonic organizations and mainstream Masons will have nothing to do with them.  As an analogy, anybody can buy a clerical gown and call himself a Roman Catholic priest. Are they? No.

Next, particularly in the earlier stages of Freemasonry, there was a rush to experiment with new orders or rites. Some of these survived, most died out either of apathy and lack of support or else because they infringed on mainstream Masonry and thus were opposed by the Craft’s governing bodies. Some still survive, although not recognized by real Masons.

What you have might well be from one of the latter, a group founded in France in the early 1800s (different stories exist and the path is tangled) and was much later essentially taken over by a US citizen named Yarker as the ‘Antient and Primitive Rite of Masonry, Disciples of Memphis’. The Rite had at one time 95 degrees. It was never strong, never recognized as regular and, so far as I know, is defunct in most places.

Next problem – Freemasonry was indeed popular in Egypt at one time but was banned by the Nasser regime in 1964 and all its documents seized. As I noted, there is no central data point, even for real Masonry, so that is going to pose a problem.

As to the document you have, a couple of things are curious.

First, please confirm that the seal says “Oriental Rights of Memphis.”  When Masons use the word ‘rite’, it has a very different meaning that that of ‘right’.  It’s hard to imagine what the phrase you cite would mean in a Masonic context.

Second is the word ‘grad’.  To the best of my knowledge (and admittedly not being perfectly fluent in either), neither French nor Italian Masons would use that particular word. I stand to be corrected on that, but it again seems odd.

In summary then, no, I cannot give you the name you seek.  The document, if real, would appear to have been from a fringe group, not a real Masonic body. Extensive and quite lucky research might perhaps shed some light on it, but I doubt it.

Sorry.

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Bro. Bob
Zetland Lodge No. 83
Calgary, AB

Initiated 1 March 1979
Passed 26 May 1979
Raised 18 October 1979

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Posted: 26 January 2017 08:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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thanks for the info
the document is in italian and arabic, my translation could be wrong between rights and rite
in italian is says ” Rito Orientale Di Memphis “, so i am not sure of the exact translation into english sorry.

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Posted: 26 January 2017 03:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Simple translation, “Rite Oriental of Memphis”.

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Past Master, Dryden Lodge #472
Secretary, Caroline Lodge #618
Hudson,Fulton,Dryden Chapter #250 OES
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Posted: 26 January 2017 03:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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so could this document be genuin ??

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Posted: 26 January 2017 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Are there any professional Masons around who would be interested in a copy of the document for verification and authentication ?

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Posted: 26 January 2017 03:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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how can i post a high resolution picture on this forum for everybody to see ?

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Posted: 26 January 2017 06:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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martingaballa - 26 January 2017 03:06 PM

so could this document be genuin ??

Probably but the Rite of Memphis (in common with its cousin the Rite of Misraim) was an unrecognised and irregular body that the vast majority of Freemasons will have no interest in except as a sideline of actual genuine Freemasonry, sorry.

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Posted: 27 January 2017 01:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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martingaballa - 26 January 2017 03:07 PM

Are there any professional Masons around who would be interested in a copy of the document for verification and authentication ?

What you’re asking is the equivalent of asking a Roman Catholic Bishop if he were interested in verifying a document concerning the Flying Spaghetti Monster. We simply wouldn’t be interested as what you have although real, is about something we consider fake.

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John Ruggiero, 32°
Master, Ancient York Lodge, Lowell, MA.

God never sends us anything we can’t handle. Sometimes I wish He didn’t trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

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Posted: 28 January 2017 05:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Thank you very much to all the replies, different point of views and facts ” very interesting “
apparently different opinions from various schools of free masonry, yet i am still confused, if every body has a different fact today, then what can i say about the whole concept of free masonry ??

it sounds like every body is trying to state a fact that can not be verified by some one else, and every body sounds to be part of a system , where every body else tries to deine it ??

i wouldn’t be surprised that even if free masonry is the most powerful secret organization on earth, that it is on its way to demise, if no body can shed some practical light on it ???

sorry for disturbing you all on this post.

apparently i just landed in the wrong place…

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Posted: 28 January 2017 06:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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martingaballa - 28 January 2017 05:24 PM

Thank you very much to all the replies, different point of views and facts ” very interesting “
apparently different opinions from various schools of free masonry, yet i am still confused, if every body has a different fact today, then what can i say about the whole concept of free masonry ??

it sounds like every body is trying to state a fact that can not be verified by some one else, and every body sounds to be part of a system , where every body else tries to deine it ??

i wouldn’t be surprised that even if free masonry is the most powerful secret organization on earth, that it is on its way to demise, if no body can shed some practical light on it ???

sorry for disturbing you all on this post.

apparently i just landed in the wrong place…


I’m confused by your post here. I see no contradictions in our replies. We all are telling you that what you have is from a clandestine (fake) organization and as a result, we know little about it. Those who did know shared their knowledge with you. Nobody dissented or told you anything untrue or contradictory.

For some reason, you then concluded that we are part of an organization “on its way to demise”. That’s quite a leap for a person who knows little about our Fraternity. So long as there are good men who wish to become better, our Gentle Craft will be there to help them on their paths. Of that I am certain.

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John Ruggiero, 32°
Master, Ancient York Lodge, Lowell, MA.

God never sends us anything we can’t handle. Sometimes I wish He didn’t trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

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Posted: 28 January 2017 06:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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If I could clarify, while there are differences between Freemasonry in different areas, there are some things which, by definition, we all share. We view those shared things as uniting us, vice those differences as separating us. Those who do not share those things are, by definition, not Masons. The entire Memphis Rite was among the latter. In that sense, yes, you have come to the wrong place, for as we do not recognize them as having been fellow Masons, we simply have little to no information to give you.

You have been politely answered to the best of our knowledge.  How you take those answers, how you behave as a consequence, is on the other hand entirely up to you.

Oh, and I doubt any of us, real Masons who know, would consider the fraternity as ‘powerful’. Nor - especially given that you are asking your questions on a public forum - can we realistically be called ‘secret’.

Peace be upon you.

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Bro. Bob
Zetland Lodge No. 83
Calgary, AB

Initiated 1 March 1979
Passed 26 May 1979
Raised 18 October 1979

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Posted: 29 January 2017 02:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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martingaballa - 28 January 2017 05:24 PM

Thank you very much to all the replies, different point of views and facts ” very interesting “
apparently different opinions from various schools of free masonry, yet i am still confused, if every body has a different fact today, then what can i say about the whole concept of free masonry ??

it sounds like every body is trying to state a fact that can not be verified by some one else, and every body sounds to be part of a system , where every body else tries to deine it ??

i wouldn’t be surprised that even if free masonry is the most powerful secret organization on earth, that it is on its way to demise, if no body can shed some practical light on it ???

sorry for disturbing you all on this post.

apparently i just landed in the wrong place…

I too am confused.

You will note that I am the other side of the pond and, other than also being a Freemason, have no connection - nor have I ever met (to my knowledge) anyone else on here. I would however, concur with what my US brethren have told you. I too an aware of the Rite, but couldn’t tell you anything about it other than it’s name. Why? Simply because it’s not something that is associated or has any connection with regular Freemasonry - which is what we all have in common. We might be aware of it, but that’s the extent of our knowledge - or interest.

As an example - you know your neighbours, right? You know them to say Hi to, right? But do you know - and do you want to know, what they talk about in the comfort of their own front room? How is that any different to us not being aware of or interested in something that we have no connection with?

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Richard
Past Provincial Junior Grand Warden, Provincial Grand Treasurer (Royal Arch)
Member of Craft, Royal Arch, Ancient & Accepted Rite, Mark, Royal Ark Mariner, Knight Templar, Knight Templar Priest, Order of Secret Monitor, Royal Order of Scotland
UGLE.

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