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Posted: 27 July 2016 03:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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edander - 26 July 2016 10:32 PM

If there are no African American Masons at the Grand Lodge makes no more difference to me than if there WERE some African Americans there. As long as the best mason for the job is in the appropriate position then it doesn’t have to be racism just because diversity is not in our field of view.

Regular Lodges allow black members. PH Lodges allow white members. There really is no need for PH lodges anymore but black members choose to stay separate to honor tradition.

I think what the Brother meant is that in the State of South Carolina to date there are no African American masons in the mainstream system. I don’t think he actually meant as GL officers. In that state (as well as a few other GL jurisdictions including my own {unfortunately}), neither GL (state or PH) recognize each other. So cross visitation is not allowed.

A question for this brother would be is the opposite true as well? What I mean is are their any European Americans as members in the South Carolina PH system? If not then I guess it is a mutual agreement to remain separate.

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Jr Grand Deacon - GL of Alabama F & AM
Sr. Deacon - Howard E. Palmes Lodge #917, Mobile, Alabama

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Posted: 28 July 2016 11:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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So if I understand your point correctly, there MAY currently be no Black Men AF&AM; in the whole state in any Blue Lodges anywhere? If that is so, then I would certainly agree it would appear to point towards racism.

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Golden City Lodge #1
Golden, CO

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Posted: 28 July 2016 04:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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Brother Joseph - 28 July 2016 11:41 AM

If you are asking me then all I can say is I do not know. I was merely trying to convey what I thought that the other brother was trying to say about South Carolina.

But the point is moot because the original poster was referring to Texas, and while I do not know how many African American masons there may be in the Texas mainstream GL jurisdiction I can say that there is mutual recognition between them and the PHGL in Texas.

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Bro. David Howard
Jr Grand Deacon - GL of Alabama F & AM
Sr. Deacon - Howard E. Palmes Lodge #917, Mobile, Alabama

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Posted: 06 August 2016 11:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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BW1976 - 24 July 2016 03:56 PM

I have been a Mason for a few years now,but when it comes to being recognized as a brother,I do not feel accepted by some of my white brothers here in the south (TEXAS).Is it normal for lodges not to accept that a black man is a Mason.I have felt very welcome when it comes to this site,you guys show real brotherly love to everyone.My Lodge is in Logansport La.but I live in Tx.That was the closest black Lodge that that I could find to my home.I ask for an application at the lodge in the town where I live but they told me that MY PEOPLE had a Lodge up the street,which was not true.Is this normal?Just now getting the nerve to ask about it.

There are definitely racial issues in the South. I am black and belong to a mainstream Lodge. I have never witnessed any racial problems in my Jurisdiction. We also recognize Prince Hall and we’ve had visits from PH Masons, all who have been welcomed with opened arms.

In Texas, the Grand Lodge of Texas and the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas recognize each other so you shouldn’t be experiencing a racial issue (and if so I’d be reporting it to their Lodge). I believe your problem may be more than racial. As you belong to a clandestine Lodge, you would not be welcomed (as a Mason) by any regular Mason, regardless of your race.

My advice would be to seek admission in a regularly constituted Lodge, subordinate to either the Grand Lodge of TX or the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of TX.

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East Lansing Lodge # 480, F&AM;
Michigan Lodge of Research # 1, F&AM;
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Posted: 08 August 2016 12:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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If there are no African American Masons at the Grand Lodge makes no more difference to me than if there WERE some African Americans there. As long as the best mason for the job is in the appropriate position then it doesn’t have to be racism just because diversity is not in our field of view.

Regular Lodges allow black members. PH Lodges allow white members. There really is no need for PH lodges anymore but black members choose to stay separate to honor tradition.

(mostly speaking for people reading along that may not know)

 

Brother Joseph,

That would be nice. However, in some of the southern states, an African American has to be Prince Hall if he wants to be a Mason. There are a couple of states that don’t have African American members in the mainstream subordinate lodges. South Carolina just happens to be one of them. We still do not have mutual recognition between the two GL’s.

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Posted: 08 August 2016 01:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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Brother Howard,

PHA Lodges in my jurisdiction are open to all. We have European Americans in my lodge. including a Past Grand Master (early 1900’s).

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Posted: 08 August 2016 09:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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edander - 08 August 2016 01:27 AM

Brother Howard,

PHA Lodges in my jurisdiction are open to all. We have European Americans in my lodge. including a Past Grand Master (early 1900’s).

And which jurisdiction would that be?

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Bro. David Howard
Jr Grand Deacon - GL of Alabama F & AM
Sr. Deacon - Howard E. Palmes Lodge #917, Mobile, Alabama

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Posted: 08 August 2016 02:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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edander - 08 August 2016 01:27 AM

Brother Howard,

PHA Lodges in my jurisdiction are open to all. We have European Americans in my lodge. including a Past Grand Master (early 1900’s).

This is true in Massachusetts as well.  You don’t have to be black to be a PHA GL member.

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Past Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
Friendship Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Wilmington, MA
32° Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Boston
Shriners International, Aleppo Temple - Wilmington, MA

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Posted: 08 August 2016 07:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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Bro DHoward - 08 August 2016 09:43 AM
edander - 08 August 2016 01:27 AM

Brother Howard,

PHA Lodges in my jurisdiction are open to all. We have European Americans in my lodge. including a Past Grand Master (early 1900’s).

And which jurisdiction would that be?


Bro DHoward,

The Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of South Carolina. The Past Grand Master that I was referring to was C.C. Johnson. He was Grand Master from 1900 - 1927. In his honor, our local Consistory (in Columbia, SC) is named after him.

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Posted: 08 August 2016 07:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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Brother Joseph - 28 July 2016 11:41 AM

So if I understand your point correctly, there MAY currently be no Black Men AF&AM; in the whole state in any Blue Lodges anywhere? If that is so, then I would certainly agree it would appear to point towards racism.


In South Carolina, “mainstream” lodges are AFM. But that’s correct, there are no Black Men in AFM Blue Lodges and mutual recognition does not exist.

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Posted: 17 August 2016 02:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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I kind of find it interesting that the original poster (OP) has not been back on, at least not commented, on this sub-forum one time since his original posting almost a month ago.

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Bro. David Howard
Jr Grand Deacon - GL of Alabama F & AM
Sr. Deacon - Howard E. Palmes Lodge #917, Mobile, Alabama

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Posted: 30 August 2016 05:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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I have defended black masons on these issues.

To be fair, I’d like to point out, that sometimes a GL’s refusal to acknowledge a PH lodge is not always race. SOMETIMES it can be issues of ritual or other variations that differ from the state GL.

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Posted: 30 August 2016 09:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
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Brother Joseph - 30 August 2016 05:02 PM

I have defended black masons on these issues.

To be fair, I’d like to point out, that sometimes a GL’s refusal to acknowledge a PH lodge is not always race. SOMETIMES it can be issues of ritual or other variations that differ from the state GL.


Bro Joseph,

Speaking from the PHA side, I have heard that before but there are a couple of problems with that explanation.

1) No jurisdiction does everything the exact same way or even use the same ritual. Not even amongst the state GL’s. But they still recognize each other. (with the exception of California’s current stance on Georgia and Tennessee’s ban on same sex relationships)

2)There are only 9 states in this country (all in the south) that might use that excuse. The rest of the country doesn’t have the same issue. So 41 other states (plus the District of Columbia) have figured this out.

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Posted: 22 November 2016 01:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
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Well I am new Mason in CO, so I still have a lot to learn. First off I’d like to point out that CO has NO issues recognizing PHA and vice versa.

As for those southern states, they are the only ones in the list that DO claim any ritual differences. Do you say that BECAUSE they are southern states and racism is why? I’m reading tons of confusion variances all over the world, all over the country and especially with differences in PHA and Blue Lodges. Not that I have the experience to know these differences (again I’m just a youngling in masonry)...  but I can read the statements of others plainly enough and their experiences.

I can tell you personally I didnt think it did the Craft any favors at all to learn Shaq was made a mason on sight, while I am struggling to get down my first proficiency. I have a long ways to go to get the same level of respect and access he was handed instantly. I also know and understand that Shaq isnt the only person to ever be made a Mason on sight but he didnt even care enough for the honor to try to put on any presentable clothes.

It seems some PH lodges like to “try” men on the street who claim to be Masons, while most Blue Lodge members don’t approve of the practice. I myself was tried by a PH supervisor when I revealed to him I was new and “studying” for my first proficiency. I’m thinking I just told him I was brand new, surely he should understand I don’t know what he asking me to prove. Additionally there is a practice in some PH lodges to take Masonic “light” or jewelry and clothes from men who can’t pass these random trials.

Things like these are conflicts that can add fuel to any other perceived problems in those lodges.

I it possible that SOME of these southern lodges are not overall racist and are just being lumped in with some others that are racist?

These are only a few things that can easily be found scratching the surface as a new Mason. I am sure if I were a seasoned “traveler” and actually lived through some of the issues that divide recognition I’d know more.

I would very much like to see WHATEVER the problem is, racism, ritual or other disputes, settled, and done away with permanently. Making all PH Lodges recognized and vice versa.

Now for a moment of personal opinion, I don’t see a need for PH Lodges. I think whatever needs to be done, should be done to convert them on over to Blue Lodges and MAYBE later combine. I do understand the honoring of PH Tradition as an observance. But personally I see this form of CHOSEN segregation as part of the contribution to the problem itself.

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Posted: 22 November 2016 02:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
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If we go back to what the OP asked, his signature tells me the answer to the original question-that he belongs to a unrecognised constitution. He was told that ‘his people’ which I suspect does not mean black but rather a lodge belonging to his particular organisation. Which, I suspect, makes this a question of misunderstanding rather than a race issue.

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Richard
Past Provincial Junior Grand Warden, Provincial Grand Treasurer (Royal Arch)
Member of Craft, Royal Arch, Ancient & Accepted Rite, Mark, Royal Ark Mariner, Knight Templar, Knight Templar Priest, Order of Secret Monitor, Royal Order of Scotland
UGLE.

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