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Autotheism and masonry?
Posted: 08 April 2016 03:24 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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Hello,

  I was wondering if a person who was Autotheistic would be allowed to join Freemasonry?

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Posted: 08 April 2016 06:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Only if they can create a parallel universe.

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Posted: 09 April 2016 12:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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underachiever - 08 April 2016 06:28 PM

Only if they created the universe.

Exceptional answer, brother.

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John Ruggiero, 32°
Master, Ancient York Lodge, Lowell, MA.

God never sends us anything we can’t handle. Sometimes I wish He didn’t trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

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Posted: 09 April 2016 10:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Another, rather philosophical question I would like to ask.

Freemasonry requirements:
*Belief in a supreme being/deity (No details required about said being/deity)

Religions:
Christianity
Catholicism
Hebrew
Muslim
Druidism
Witchcraft


Possible deities:
*Flying spaghetti monster
*Magical frog
*Jesus
*A devil god
*Oneself

“You must be pure in heart. Put away evil thoughts of every kind. If you have done anyone wrong, seek honestly to correct it.”


Belief in a supreme being/deity means that the supreme being/deity created the universe; including both good and evil. Therefore, the supreme being/deity can NOT be all good. This being said, a man who believes in a supreme being/deity, of good will and accord, will be a conflict of interest if the man is purely evil. For instance, if a man believed in Molech, wouldn’t his belief

Masonry implies if not states that all the gods of different religions is essentially the one in the same. Therefore, the god of the bible, molech, and other gods of both good nature and evil nature are the same one; dual nature. So, would that mean if a man who’s personal god had a creed of committing evil acts, still be technically compatible with masonry, or be a conflict of interest and contradiction?

The term “pure” if used in a religious sense, would be contradictory to masonry in the same sense that masonry declares itself as not a religion or religious institution.


*Great architect of the universe
The following are examples, all equal, and one in the same:
-Jesus
-Molech
-Vishnu
-Krishna
-Magical Frog
-The horned god of witchcraft
-Baphomet
-Allah
-Ra
-Set

There would be no way of proving or disproving that the autotheist did or did not create the universe, and manifested himself as human. This was just something I’ve been pondering through the technicalities and philosophy. I would also like to thank you gentlemen for your replies.

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Posted: 09 April 2016 11:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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First off, belief in the Supreme Being is not the only criteria for membership. You must also have a good reputation and have a desire to be serviceable to all. Most of your conjectures would be disqualified on those grounds.

In my jurisdiction the religious qualification is a belief in the Supreme Being to whom you are accountable in the afterlife. You can bring up all the technicalities you like and prove to yourself that we can be tricked by logic but you would be wrong. We are not looking at a resume and making piles of acceptance or rejection.  We are looking at man in the eyes and testing his faith, honor and humility. If he is a man we would be proud to be associated with,  he is allowed to petition.

We don’t sit around finding ways to admit bad men into our ranks.

You may also want to check out this video to see some of the flaws in your premises.
http://youtu.be/oWraC-OUudc

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John Ruggiero, 32°
Master, Ancient York Lodge, Lowell, MA.

God never sends us anything we can’t handle. Sometimes I wish He didn’t trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

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Posted: 10 April 2016 12:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Not to mention that the lack of a VSL for an autotheist would preclude him from entry .. or if he claimed to have one, a quick preusal of same would likely rule him out.
All this is sophistry anyway; it seems to me you’re just attempting to bait.

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Posted: 11 April 2016 09:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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baal - 09 April 2016 10:45 PM

Belief in a supreme being/deity means that the supreme being/deity created the universe; including both good and evil.

This logical fallacy is called a Straw Man argument.  You claim that A means B and then attempt to force the other person to defend B.  Masonry makes no statement about good and evil.  Masonry encourages men to apply themselves to become a better man.

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Posted: 11 April 2016 12:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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God created all good things. Evil is the absence of good just as darkness is the absence of light. Light can be measured while darkness cannot. So, too goodness can be measured while the absence of goodness cannot.

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John Ruggiero, 32°
Master, Ancient York Lodge, Lowell, MA.

God never sends us anything we can’t handle. Sometimes I wish He didn’t trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

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Posted: 11 April 2016 04:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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baal - 09 April 2016 10:45 PM

Belief in a supreme being/deity means that the supreme being/deity created the universe; including both good and evil.

Whilst I take your point, God also gave us free will and the ability to choose, and the choices we make are what make the difference.

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Posted: 11 April 2016 06:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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This was not meant to imply that your organization willingly admits bad people. I was simply producing the idea of a duality principle from a creator. An all powerful creator can not be all good, and if the creator is all only good, then he could not be all powerful. Evil is the catalyst for good, which is why we’re able to determine the difference of good and evil characteristics. It was just a thought that some bad people can put on an image to gain entry into a benevolent order, which is why masonry has obtained an unwanted connotation of terrible propaganda.

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Posted: 11 April 2016 10:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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baal - 11 April 2016 06:38 PM

This was not meant to imply that your organization willingly admits bad people. I was simply producing the idea of a duality principle from a creator. An all powerful creator can not be all good, and if the creator is all only good, then he could not be all powerful. Evil is the catalyst for good, which is why we’re able to determine the difference of good and evil characteristics. It was just a thought that some bad people can put on an image to gain entry into a benevolent order, which is why masonry has obtained an unwanted connotation of terrible propaganda.

Your conclusion does not make logical sense. The idea that men can and have faked their way into Masons is certainly true. There is a long list of men expelled from our ranks that shows we are not perfect judges of character. What does not flow from this is your statement that this is why there is such terrible propaganda.  That propaganda was created by people with reasons to have their followers not think for themselves.  Theocracies, fundamentalists and those who rule by strict control fear men who believe in freedom and democracy.

Most of the falsehoods told about us can be traced to a single person named Leo Taxil. Mr. Taxil started out writing pornography but wasn’t very good at it. He then turned to criticizing the Catholic Church but discovered that had some serious down sides. He then invented a tale about a female mason who was sharing all the secrets with him. He published books and pamphlets which became more outrageous as time went by. The Pope and king of France ate it up making him a rich man. He finally, after 12 years, admitted it was all a hoax but his absurd accusations are simply too titillating for the average zealot to turn down. We see Taxil’s lies today in all sorts of places to this day. One of Taxil’s many accusations was that only those of the 30th, 31st and 32nd degrees should know that we really worship Lucifer. Well, being a 32nd degree Mason myself I can assure you that this is not the case.

I would suggest you study the science of logic. You are obviously an intelligent person but are making leaps in reasoning and assigning causality where there is none.

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John Ruggiero, 32°
Master, Ancient York Lodge, Lowell, MA.

God never sends us anything we can’t handle. Sometimes I wish He didn’t trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

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Posted: 13 April 2016 07:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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As a side note, you list catholicism and christianity differently. Thats untrue. Catholicism is a sect of christianity, as shiite is a sect of islam. Same god, different rites.
As to autotheism, I dont think that would qualify.
As to your last statement, this is an argument used in all sorts of professions, and is patently incorrect. People (because we are all human, and have faults) will often exploit their positions within a vocation or an organization, for their own advantage. We see this sensationalized all the time in professions such as priesthood, police, etc (just these two, because these are what the media likes to focus on).
But, in reality, you are talking such a small subsection that it doesnt register as a percentage. Its just that, when someone in a position of authority abuses that position, it becomes front page news. The ORGANIZATION doesnt support that action, but, no one can TRULY look into a mans heart.
So, have people exploited freemasonry to their own gain? Certainly. Have people lied to gain entry? Certainly. Does freemasonry encourage EITHER of these? Most certainly not.
That position is called cherry picking. Its a logical fallacy, as it clearly throws away the overwhelming majority of people who are positive contributors to said professions and organizations, and only picking a few examples to try to prove the negative position.

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Posted: 14 April 2016 11:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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baal - 09 April 2016 10:45 PM

Masonry implies if not states that all the gods of different religions is essentially the one in the same.

Actually, Freemasonry says nor implies no such thing. Freemasonry does not dictate any theological idea or scenario. What Freemasonry does say/imply is that you must believe in a Supreme Being responsible for Creation and which holds us accountable in the afterlife. Without that accountability we, as fallible humans, cannot guarantee we will strive to be the best person that we can. Freemasonry, in general, leaves the decision of how you worship that Supreme Being to the individual man.

Because Freemasonry doesn’t try to shove any particular theological dogma down someone’s throat, people (like you possibly) tend to try to piece the square peg into the puzzle’s circular hole in an attempt to prove a point that just simply is not there.

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