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Freemasonry and Greek philosophy?
Posted: 06 January 2016 12:36 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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Hi all
Is Freemasonry influenced by Greek philosophy? or just uses a specific ideas that helped in geometry only ?

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Posted: 06 January 2016 02:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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I suppose it is fair to say that Freemasonry is as influenced by Greek philosophy as mankind is influenced by Greek philosophy.

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Dan

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Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine, Aleppo Temple

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Posted: 06 January 2016 04:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Dan Madore - 06 January 2016 02:59 PM

I suppose it is fair to say that Freemasonry is as influenced by Greek philosophy as mankind is influenced by Greek philosophy.

any specific tents or ideas or only a general knowledge ?

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Posted: 07 January 2016 09:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Well….none come to mind, but then again, I’ve never been able to cite any Greek philosophy tenets from memory.
I would say, rather, that Freemasonry may be influenced by some of the same tenets that Greek philosophy was influenced by.  Some suggest that Greek philosophy itself originated from older teachings.
The tenets of our institution are brotherly love, relief and truth.  Wherever those concepts originated is where you’ll find Freemasonry’s roots.  My guess is those concepts originated long before the inception of Greek philosophy.

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Dan

Past Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
Senior Deacon, Friendship Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Wilmington, MA
32° Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Boston
Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine, Aleppo Temple

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Posted: 07 January 2016 11:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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While there are references to the Greeks in our ritual, they are not specifically cited for philosophy. Certain Greek philosophers are mentioned as being brother Masons and we acknowledge their wisdom. Understand that Masonry is not a school of Philosophy.  Nobody writes our lessons on a blackboard to be copied down. The teachings of our Craft are through allegory and the degrees are only a foundation upon which we may build our spiritual life.

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John Ruggiero, 32°
Master, Ancient York Lodge, Lowell, MA.

God never sends us anything we can’t handle. Sometimes I wish He didn’t trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

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Posted: 08 January 2016 02:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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This is probably the closest ‘influence’ - it’s a picture of part of the ceiling of the Grand Temple at UGLE.  The two are regarded as ‘fathers’ of Freemasonry because of their mathematical and architectural expertice .. but that’s all.  It’s worth also noting that there are Royal Arch Chapters named after them in Cambridge; Euclid being the Chapter with connections to the University - Pythagoras Chapter being the oldest in the Province.

The theorum (depicted between them in the picture) is used in UGLE to denote a Past Master and appears as part of the breast Jewel worn by them.

https://londoninsight.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/1b2q9505.jpg

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Posted: 28 February 2016 08:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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If there are not stronger influence why freemason scholars determinate masonry as neoplatonic society….
And is it from credible sources story that Pitaghorian theorema was kept as a secret by your ancestors?
I suppose that complete sentence from logo from your link is “But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.’” Can you tell me closer meaning of that/?

Can you tell me your view meaning “ouroboros”(snake or dragon eating his tale), also presented on that and many others masonic logos? Do you use Gadsden flag for some deeper meaning than common meaning it has in your nation?

too much question without order:-) so I can add one more anyway:-) How you keep ESOTERIC(occult=hidden knowledge) and ALTRUISTIC(love for mankind) together?

If you have some receipt to “make good men better” why dont share that receipt to all humanity? Aren’t there millions of good men* beyond your group? And dont be mad on me I just ASK .

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Posted: 28 February 2016 08:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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KmetSiman - 28 February 2016 08:08 PM

If there are not stronger influence why freemason scholars determinate masonry as neoplatonic society….

Please provide references for the idea that Freemasonry is a Neoplatonic organization. We are not a religion and do not teach that all eminates from “the one”. as Neoplatonism teaches.

And is it from credible sources story that Pitaghorian theorema was kept as a secret by your ancestors?

Craftsmen passed on the secrets of their vocation to their apprentices. The science of geometry of which the Pythagorian Theorem is part was one of the secrets of Freemasonry. Of course it was not freely shared.

I suppose that complete sentence from logo from your link is “But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.’” Can you tell me closer meaning of that/?

It’s from the bible. It’s a reference to heaven.

Can you tell me your view meaning “ouroboros”(snake or dragon eating his tale), also presented on that and many others masonic logos?

I’ve never seen that symbol in relation to Freemasonry.

Do you use Gadsden flag for some deeper meaning than common meaning it has in your nation?

Again, not a masonic symbol.

too much question without order:-) so I can ad one more anyway:-)

Of course, you are not qualified to join us, so seek our knowledge and secrets any way you can get them.

How you keep ESOTERIC(occult=hidden knowledge) and ALTRUISTIC(love for mankind) together?

Quite well, thank you.

If you have some receipt to “make good men better” why dont share that receipt to all humanity? Aren’t there millions of good men* beyond your group? And dont be mad on me I just ASK .

That’s correct and we teach nothing that isn’t available to anyone through their faith or at their grandmother’s knee. We just have a particularly effective delivery method for those lessons. In order to be part of our order you must be qualified and vouched for. If you are not qualified, you cannot join and receive the benefits of our Fraternity.

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John Ruggiero, 32°
Master, Ancient York Lodge, Lowell, MA.

God never sends us anything we can’t handle. Sometimes I wish He didn’t trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

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Posted: 29 February 2016 05:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Thank you for your patient answer. Gadsden flag(yellow flag with snake and ” d o n t t h r e a d o n m e “) I saw in masonic museum in USA(not been physicaly there but watched filmed tour). It is from civil war, the only one you had until today), it often has been said that it was designed by one of George Wahington ‘s generals(majority of them was freemmasons). Message is pretty clear but I ask has it some deeper meaning for you(in your referent system, which is(as I see it) beyond traditional good vs. evil dualism).

Ouroboros, snake or dragon eating its tale is symobl I often see in relation with masonry, it is even represented on the link provided by Richard George, along the sun/moon circle?

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Posted: 29 February 2016 09:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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KmetSiman - 29 February 2016 05:54 AM

Thank you for your patient answer. Gadsden flag(yellow flag with snake and ” d o n t t h r e a d o n m e “) I saw in masonic museum in USA(not been physicaly there but watched filmed tour). It is from civil war, the only one you had until today), it often has been said that it was designed by one of George Wahington ‘s generals(majority of them was freemmasons). Message is pretty clear but I ask has it some deeper meaning for you(in your referent system, which is(as I see it) beyond traditional good vs. evil dualism).

Ouroboros, snake or dragon eating its tale is symobl I often see in relation with masonry, it is even represented on the link provided by Richard George, along the sun/moon circle?

It is not from our Civil War.  It is from our revolution.
That snake on the flag is not eating its tail.
The rattlesnake was actually a rather common symbol for the colonies that were to become the USA during the second half of the 18th century (1754 being the first known usage).
As for the message, what do you think happens if you step on a poisonous snake?

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Past Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
Senior Deacon, Friendship Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Wilmington, MA
32° Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Boston
Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine, Aleppo Temple

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Posted: 29 February 2016 11:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Snake on Gadsden flag does not eat its tale, yes I rode that origin as symbol for separated colonies. But what about snake presented on logo from above link?
For the message it is clear but when it was on battle ships(today it is smth like “don’t with .... with us” :-) But someone say that masonry is “science” about symbol so I ask does that flag in masonry have deeper meaning, like don’t step on black field or let snake(commonly represent evil) be there, don’t fight against .... Just guessing maybe it is stupid idea but I ask for your explanation


/// No it was not from civil war I thought on war for independence or revolution as you named it. I was in hurry to write, I should read what I write before posting :-)

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Posted: 29 February 2016 11:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Sorry, I’m having a hard time understanding what you are asking.  Also, I don’t know what other snake image you are talking about.

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Dan

Past Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
Senior Deacon, Friendship Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Wilmington, MA
32° Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Boston
Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine, Aleppo Temple

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Posted: 29 February 2016 12:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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KmetSiman - 29 February 2016 05:54 AM

Ouroboros, snake or dragon eating its tale is symobl I often see in relation with masonry, it is even represented on the link provided by Richard George, along the sun/moon circle?

He’s talking about the circle round the moon in the picture of Euclid and Pythagoras from the roof of the Grand Temple at UGLE.  If you zoom in enough, you can see something that might be construed to be the head of a snake - although having seen the original on a number of occasions, I’m not convinced (I’m there on the 9 March, so I’ll have another look). Assuming that’s what is is though .. (giving the benefit of doubt at the moment ..)

It represents a circle and eternity (as a simple Google search would have told you ..) - a circle having no beginning and no ending and therefore represents eternity.  Nothing more.  It’s an old symbol and has represented eternity throughout antiquity.

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Posted: 29 February 2016 08:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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Eternity-fair enough. thanks

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Posted: 01 March 2016 08:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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As I recall, the snake eating its tail is one of universal depiction of creation. It is fairly prevalent amongst southern indian tribes in the US and Mexico. I dont recall which ones, off the top of my head, but it relates to their myth of the origins of the universe.
But, to the best of my knowledge, there is no reference to this in Masonry.

The Gadsden flag has nothing to do with this symbol. Its unlikely that the person that came up with the idea of the flag even knew of the tribes in the southwest at that time

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Posted: 01 March 2016 11:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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Ouroboros is actually quite a common symbol - it represents Birth, Death and Rebirth - hence eternity .. and rather appropriate for the religions that have the concept of Birth, Death and Rebirth in to the Afterlife .. and eternity.  As I say, it dates back into antiquity.

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Richard
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Member of Craft, Royal Arch, Ancient & Accepted Rite, Mark, Royal Ark Mariner, Knight Templar, Knight Templar Priest, Order of Secret Monitor, Royal Order of Scotland
UGLE.

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