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Was Nikola Tesla…
Posted: 01 January 2016 06:53 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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...just kidding. I know you find my question about historical person and masonry annoying(I still don’t understand why)

so here is some different type of question> How do you see interference between masonry and intelligence services?


Especially in hot geopolitical regions(our Balkans or middle east)

I know you may not have such experience in USA. But that interference is pretty obvious here.

And please, you don’t have reply to me at all, just dont use template answers.

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Posted: 01 January 2016 08:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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I honestly don’t know how to answer your question.  I don’t know what you’re talking about.  I see absolutely no connection between Masonry and “intelligence services”.  Are you talking about the CIA?  One has nothing to do with the other. 

Exactly what is “obvious”?  I’m being quite blunt in saying I’m baffled by your question.  I just don’t understand it.

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Posted: 01 January 2016 08:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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And as for Nikola Tesla…..it is very unlikely that he was a Freemason.  There is no record of him being a member that I can find.

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Friendship Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Wilmington, MA
32° Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Boston
Shriners International, Aleppo Temple - Wilmington, MA

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Posted: 01 January 2016 10:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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KmetSiman - 01 January 2016 06:53 PM

...just kidding. I know you find my question about historical person and masonry annoying(I still don’t understand why)

When someone asks if a famous person is a mason, it simply shows us that the person is lazy. You have the same access to search engines that I do. If you’re curious about something you should at least try to find out about it yourself before posting here. If you find conflicting information then sure, ask us about it.

so here is some different type of question> How do you see interference between masonry and intelligence services?
Especially in hot geopolitical regions(our Balkans or middle east)

I know you may not have such experience in USA. But that interference is pretty obvious here.

And please, you don’t have reply to me at all, just don’t use template answers.

I, too am confused by your question. I’m not sure what you mean by “interference”. Are you saying that Masons interfere with the work of the CIA or the former KGB? Why would we even get involved? Why would we want to interfere? How is this interference obvious?

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God never sends us anything we can’t handle. Sometimes I wish He didn’t trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

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Posted: 02 January 2016 06:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Dan Madore - 01 January 2016 08:33 PM

And as for Nikola Tesla…..it is very unlikely that he was a Freemason.  There is no record of him being a member that I can find.

For me it is also not likely. But some lodges in Serbia and “grand masters”(very few indeed) indicate him as he was. And for example that is CONFLICT of information. And because of that I ASK you.

*For example Mihailo Pupin, another famous scientist from Serbia was without doubt. In that time president of USA was Woodrow Vilson who if was not by himself(conflict of information:-) at least was in the circle of your “brothers”. During the peace negotiation after World War I, Pupin wrote letter to Vilson, with the accent on that “connection”, and declare him that he is from Banat, and he is Serb, and in Banat there are Serbs like him, so it would be big mistake if Banat would belong to Romania. Banat is the big part of Panonic Basin which feeds half of Europe. And that letter had precedent role in the finish of negotiation about that region. Mainly, because of that letter we got Banat(but on the other part Romanians lost that region just because of one letter and masonry connections of man who wrote that letter).
This is not rumor. I found this in serious historical books. And in books which wrote Grand Master Of Grand National Lodge of Serbia.

Let that be linkage with my basic question. This is example that masonry connection could have grater significance in the geopolitical distribution than divisions of soldiers which died in battlefield.
And that strong channel of influence is without doubt interesting for intelligence services in our-days. Maybe because your code of silence it is suitable channel for attempts of instrumentalization. I don’t want to indicate that here someone controls other-one. Because of that I used term interference(maybe confusing, sorry again because of my shamefully English-they will bomb us again just because of my English:-). Overlap is better term ?

I don’t think you in Massachusetts cooperating with CIA(that agency is for outside anyway). I see you already have your lodges in Afghanistan, Iraq… I would like if someone from that region answer something. Or from Lebanon for example. I don’t know do you have at this forum someone from Balkans?

Also, I would appreciate if someone of your members which are interested in geopolitics could give me answer.

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Posted: 02 January 2016 07:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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You see, there is a fundamental issue to your request: we don’t talk about politics in lodge. This is, as we have told you before, a topic which divides men. We wish for men to come together as friends and brothers.

Woodrow Vilson was never president of the US, by the way. You may be referring to president Woodrow Wilson. President Wilson was not a Mason. Here’s how I found that out: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Woodrow+wilson+freemason+

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John Ruggiero, 32°
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God never sends us anything we can’t handle. Sometimes I wish He didn’t trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

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Posted: 02 January 2016 08:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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KmetSiman - 02 January 2016 06:11 AM

*For example Mihailo Pupin, another famous scientist from Serbia was without doubt. In that time president of USA was Woodrow Vilson who if was not by himself(conflict of information:-) at least was in the circle of your “brothers”. During the peace negotiation after World War I, Pupin wrote letter to Vilson, with the accent on that “connection”, and declare him that he is from Banat, and he is Serb, and in Banat there are Serbs like him, so it would be big mistake if Banat would belong to Romania. Banat is the big part of Panonic Basin which feeds half of Europe. And that letter had precedent role in the finish of negotiation about that region. Mainly, because of that letter we got Banat(but on the other part Romanians lost that region just because of one letter and masonry connections of man who wrote that letter).
This is not rumor. I found this in serious historical books. And in books which wrote Grand Master Of Grand National Lodge of Serbia.

Let that be linkage with my basic question. This is example that masonry connection could have grater significance in the geopolitical distribution than divisions of soldiers which died in battlefield.
And that strong channel of influence is without doubt interesting for intelligence services in our-days. Maybe because your code of silence it is suitable channel for attempts of instrumentalization. I don’t want to indicate that here someone controls other-one. Because of that I used term interference(maybe confusing, sorry again because of my shamefully English-they will bomb us again just because of my English:-). Overlap is better term ?

I don’t think you in Massachusetts cooperating with CIA(that agency is for outside anyway). I see you already have your lodges in Afghanistan, Iraq… I would like if someone from that region answer something. Or from Lebanon for example. I don’t know do you have at this forum someone from Balkans?

Also, I would appreciate if someone of your members which are interested in geopolitics could give me answer.

First, President Wilson wasn’t a Freemason, and we don’t have a “circle of Brothers”.  You are either a Brother or you aren’t.  Not sure how the connection you provided illustrates that he was a Mason.  We often list the 13 presidents who were Masons.  Why would we leave him off if he was a member?  (hint…we wouldn’t :) )

As for lodges and codes of silence becoming channels of influence….the truth is men chose who to confide in for any number of reasons, but don’t make the mistake of assuming all secrecy is associated.  I don’t talk about what goes in my business here on this forum generally, but does that then mean that I therefore must be sharing that info with Freemasons? (hint….it doesn’t).

In general, the moderators on this site are in the United States.  We also have a handful of contributing brothers from a handful of other countries who help when they can, but that doesn’t mean we have any direct affiliation.

Also…I’m unaware of any lodges in Afghanistan or Iraq (save any that may have been created for military members stationed there who are also Freemasons).

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Past Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
Friendship Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Wilmington, MA
32° Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Boston
Shriners International, Aleppo Temple - Wilmington, MA

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Posted: 02 January 2016 09:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Wilson, sorry. I don’t sure for him by himself was(even if his name is on some lists) but numerous people in his cabinet were(circle is maybe wrong term). And source for above is among other, book of Zoran Nenezic, historian of free masonry, ex grand master of Grand National Lodge of Serbia(earlier Yougoslavis) who “waked up” masonry in Yougoslavia 1990.

QUOTE “You see, there is a fundamental issue to your request: we don’t all about politics in lodge. This is, as we have told you before, a topic which divides men. We wish for men to come together as friends and brothers”

this is what I meant by template answers:-) You don’ talk in the lodge about politics differences. But you are perfectly aware that you are with intention accepting in the lodge numerous politicians, diplomats and others and that they are directly decide about politics of countries(I don’t say that this is the only one factor). You are also perfectly aware that masonry was and that it is in our-days one of instruments for foreign affairs and geopolitical aims.


And I saw in Signature of one of your members name of lodge located in Khabul(Afghanistan). I see again that you are not in the mood for patient answering on my questions. Ok forget it than.

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Posted: 02 January 2016 10:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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KmetSiman - 02 January 2016 09:41 AM

this is what I meant by template answers:-) You don’ talk in the lodge about politics differences. But you are perfectly aware that you are with intention accepting in the lodge numerous politicians, diplomats and others and that they are directly decide about politics of countries(I don’t say that this is the only one factor). You are also perfectly aware that masonry was and that it is in our-days one of instruments for foreign affairs and geopolitical aims.

Wrong.  This is flawed logic.  Just because politicians and diplomats MIGHT (and I know very few who have) join Freemasonry, that doesn’t mean that they conduct their business in a lodge.  They are expected to leave their politics at the door just like everyone else.

Stop complaining about template answers please.  It’s not a template.  We do not talk about politics in lodge.  EVER.  Those who try are asked to leave.  It’s just that we don’t feel the need to find 100 different ways to tell you the same thing.  Also, understand that answering questions on a forum is no substitute for a conversation, so we try to a)provide concise information that doesn’t take an hour to read and b)make sure that these answers can be read by future readers who can also learn from them.

KmetSiman - 02 January 2016 09:41 AM

And I saw in Signature of one of your members name of lodge located in Khabul(Afghanistan). I see again that you are not in the mood for patient answering on my questions. Ok forget it than.

Yes, that would be one of the lodges I spoke of that was formed by and for military members stationed there.

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Dan

Past Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
Friendship Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Wilmington, MA
32° Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Boston
Shriners International, Aleppo Temple - Wilmington, MA

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Posted: 02 January 2016 03:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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“What is 1 + 1?”

“Two.”

“No, no!  What is 1 + 1?”

“Two.”

“You’re not taking me seriously!  What color is the sky?”

“Blue.”

“Why do you insist on giving me template answers?”

You keep getting the same sort of answers over and over because we keep responding truthfully to the same sort of questions you keep asking over and over. That you will not accept that truth is your problem, not ours.


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Second, that a Mr Pupin may have written Mr Wilson asking for a slice of territory is neither here nor there. I am sure that every politician at Versailles received hundreds of such letters. What might be interesting is a verified letter from Wilson to Pupin, addressing him as a fellow Mason and, on that basis, promising to help. Such a letter would help prove your case - except that if it existed, you would have already quoted it. Oh, and (as you have already been told) Wilson was not a Freemason…

.
Third, (as you have already been told) almost no Masons recognize the “Grand National Lodge of Serbia” as real, authentic Masons. Citing a member of that group for evidence brings no more authority than citing a member of the Chinese Red Cross or the Riga Philharmonic Orchestra or the New Zealand Boy Scouts as an authority.

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Fourth.  Does Freemasonry have among its members diplomats, industrialists, nobility - powerful, important men? Certainly. What your failed logic overlooks are the many, many, many more Masons who are, in that sense, unimportant - bus drivers, clerks, book-keepers, farmers, mechanics, labourers, salesman, machinists, dentists, fitness trainers, seamen, and so forth.

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As to Masons at the Kandahar Airfield, yes, there was a small lodge operating there for a couple of years under dispensation of a Canadian grand lodge. Its members consisted of men working or stationed on the airbase. That much is conceded and none of it has ever been hidden. Now that we are agreed on that, so what?  It’s a big, big jump from that to Masonic ‘interference’ in foreign affairs and to try to use that lodge as ‘evidence’ shows only how desperate you are to find something - anything - that conforms to your pre-existing image. That lodge is now closed and its few members gone home, so it is unlikely you are going to get a comment from them here.  Nor, I suspect, there are many Masons from the Balkans on a Massachusetts website. 

Which leads to the obvious question. You want a discussion with somebody from Lebanon or the Balkans and you don’t like the answers you get here.

So why do you keep coming back to this Massachusetts site?
.

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Calgary, AB

Initiated 1 March 1979
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Raised 18 October 1979

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Posted: 02 January 2016 04:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Because you, freemasons are among few groups I can disagree. I don’t have anything to disagree with someone who is waiting for new instagram picture of Kim Kardashian.

And because of story of our writer and your “brother” Milorad Pavic(best known for Khazars Dictionary, here is another interactive piece from him which could be very, very, interested for you http://www.ezone.org/damaskin/builders.html)....In that story(Bed for 3) he tells that there are whole area which don’t recognize Euclid geometry, and in that area 1+1 not have to be 2 in that area it could be 3 or “n”(rather than just synergy he addressed here masonry).

And now, you, Lark tell me that 1+1 have to be 2 ...

I am still look for more than that :-)

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Posted: 02 January 2016 04:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Real picture is not in absoulute rather than in relative numbers. From 15 ministers in our present goverment 6 of them are freemasons(words of grand master of lodge you DO recognize), and from about 32 minister of foreign affairs between I and II world war(believe it or not we had so much diferent ministers in just 23years:-) about 27 of them were freemasons(his words again).

from hundred of thousands bus drivers I believe that you have 1 or 2 which are freemasons.

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Posted: 02 January 2016 04:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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KmetSiman - 02 January 2016 04:37 PM

Because you are among few groups I can disagree.

And therein I think, lies the answer - you’re not interested in joining, just in starting arguments.  What you don’t seem to grasp however, is that no-one’s biting.  When we tell you “we don’t discuss politics”, you refuse to listen and insist that we must do. When we say we don’t discuss <whatever>, you don’t believe us etc. etc. etc.  It just become a circular exercise in logic - faulty logic.  Either take our word for it or don’t; just don’t accuse us of lying because we’re not.  I’m in the UK; I’ve never -to my knowledge- met anyone on the forum - and that include the other regular UK poster - and I’ve even been in the building where he works and not met him.  The chances therefore of the types of conspiracy you’re talking about are just so remote as not to exist.

Sorry to disappoint you, but that it - really!

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Posted: 02 January 2016 05:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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Richard George - 02 January 2016 04:52 PM
KmetSiman - 02 January 2016 04:37 PM

Because you are among few groups I can disagree.

And therein I think, lies the answer - you’re not interested in joining, just in starting arguments.  What you don’t seem to grasp however, is that no-one’s biting.  When we tell you “we don’t discuss politics”, you refuse to listen and insist that we must do. When we say we don’t discuss <whatever>, you don’t believe us etc. etc. etc.  It just become a circular exercise in logic - faulty logic.  Either take our word for it or don’t; just don’t accuse us of lying because we’re not.  I’m in the UK; I’ve never -to my knowledge- met anyone on the forum - and that include the other regular UK poster - and I’ve even been in the building where he works and not met him.  The chances therefore of the types of conspiracy you’re talking about are just so remote as not to exist.

Sorry to disappoint you, but that it - really!


At the begin you was right-I admit that-it would be my pleasure to discus some serious issues with you directly.
In the second part, you try again to force things in template. I am profane(vulgar was term in the past?) lunatic which is trying to accuse that you on this forum are reptilians actually.

Sorry to disappoint you, things are not vulgar like that.

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Posted: 02 January 2016 06:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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You see? There you go again! ‘Profane’ does NOT mean vulgar - you are assuming the language of Freemasonry is modern; it’s not.  It dates from the 1800’s.  So ‘profane’ actually means ‘unitiated’ - hence a non-mason and therefore not in possession of masonic knowledge.  YOU’RE actually the one using ‘template’, not us.  If you wish to discuss things seriously, then do so, but stop with the accusations.

And remember; this site is actually about helping those who want to BECOME freemasons, not about philosophical discussion.

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Member of Craft, Royal Arch, Ancient & Accepted Rite, Mark, Royal Ark Mariner, Knight Templar, Knight Templar Priest, Order of Secret Monitor, Royal Order of Scotland
UGLE.

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Posted: 02 January 2016 06:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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Than please prohibit access to those who are not members or not in the preparation for that. If it was so I wouldnt try to false declare, believe me. This site is open for everyone(name is ASKFREEMASON not BECOMEFREEMASON)... You want to fight against prejudice or have other aim and because of that you keep this forum opened for everyone. Close him or respect your own goal.
This is not about discussion? What you are looking right now is D I S C U S S I O N. By form and by what it contains.
And you made a F O R U M. As you know, forums on net are named by ancient forums which were not just market places, rather P U B L I C places for D E B A T E S.

P.s. Even if I wanted to became member, you would turn away me with your, sorry for say, but arrogant way of communicating with “profans”(with your inpatient answers, you don’t reassure me that this does not have meaning of previous term you used for others “vulgar”).

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