Ask a Freemason Questions and Answers Find a Lodge Near You
 
   
1 of 2
1
Felons vs. ex-offenders
Posted: 16 September 2010 06:33 PM   [ Ignore ]  
Newcomer
Rank
Total Posts:  9
Joined  2010-09-16

if i am off base here, please let me know. if its a matter to be discussed in private, please pm me.

i have twice been convicted of felonies. your rules say no felons can join. doesnt say anything about ex-offenders. fact is, i understand my position now as co-creator, and have been told on 3 occasions to come and join. not come and apply, but come and join. twice by 32 degree masons, one blue, one red, and the next time by the same guy with the blue ring, only the most recent time i saw him, he had on a purple ring. only ever saw one of those on my grandpa’s finger. never heard of a purple house or lodge before. anyone up for explaining that? anyway, i am quite awake now, and understand that i do not wish to join the order for any gains whatsoever. in fact, it is my understanding that the order gains much more from what I bring to the table. i would like someone’s opinion on this please.

~PEACE~

 Signature 

“What luck for leaders, that men do not think”—Adolf Hitler

“The lips of wisdom are sealed, except to the ears of understanding”

“Where falls the footsteps of the Master, the ears of those ready for his Teaching open   wide.”

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 September 2010 07:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  51
Joined  2010-06-01

As a new Brother, I may be off in my opinion. I would sit down with the Worshipful Master and Secretary of the Lodge that you wish to petition. Be open and honest about your past and your present. Only they can determine if you qualify for membership, with input from the Grand Lodge.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 September 2010 08:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
Moderator
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3301
Joined  2007-09-27

It is hard to make one statement that would apply generally across the board for all Masons.  You’d certainly have to speak to the officers of a lodge near you about whether or not your criminal background would be a concern, but I would say most likely it is.  I cannot judge, but Masons certainly try to distance themselves from criminal elements, understandably.  Not to say you haven’t turned over a new leaf, but I’m sure you understand why saying you have been convicted of a felony not once but twice would cause an investigating comittee to raise an eyebrow.  It certainly wouldn’t hurt you to petition a lodge, but it would be an uphill climb to say the least.  Fraternalism is based partly on trust.  Members want to feel that they can trust one another.  That is why backgrounds are investigated.  I’m imagining that, although not impossible, it would be difficult for a convicted felon to prove trustworthiness to men he doesn’t know.  Does that make sense?  I’m just trying to explain how I would look at it if it was my lodge you were trying to join.

As for your questions about blue, red, purple, etc….don’t confuse ring color with lodge types.  Masonic jewelry varies according to personal taste.  I often wear a ring that is black.  I know men who have red rings and blue rings and many different colors and styles.  This is all personal preference and usually does not reflect what lodge they are members of.

You might be confused because Masonic lodge are often referred to as “blue lodges”.  This is simply another way of saying “regular Masonic lodge”.  There are no other lodge colors.  There is no such thing as a red lodge or a purple lodge. 

I hope this helps somewhat.  Keep us posted on your findings.

 Signature 

Dan

Worshipful Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
Weymouth United Masonic Lodge A.F.& A.M. - Weymouth, MA
32° Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Boston
Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine, Aleppo Temple

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 September 2010 10:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
Newcomer
Rank
Total Posts:  9
Joined  2010-09-16

certainly. and thank you both for your input. i still have yet to make a final decision on whether or not i even want to join. i just recently learned how you got your bad rep.. and, though i have found a new peace, i come off pretty different from your average petitioners. fact is, i still question EVERYTHING. i see no point in searching for some royal secret truth. a truth is self evident and cannot be found, it is known. i know my truth. i know who i am. yet im still trying to find where i stand in my own polarity. still havent found my resonance. once i do, then ill make a decision as to whether i choose to join the order or to withdraw from commerce altogether and be self sufficient. sure i would be more than happy either way, but i would like to find my own path first. just looking at my options.

~PEACE~

 Signature 

“What luck for leaders, that men do not think”—Adolf Hitler

“The lips of wisdom are sealed, except to the ears of understanding”

“Where falls the footsteps of the Master, the ears of those ready for his Teaching open   wide.”

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 September 2010 10:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
Moderator
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3301
Joined  2007-09-27
sovereigntylost - 17 September 2010 10:22 AM

i just recently learned how you got your bad rep..

Do you mind enlightening us about this?  I’d love to know :)

 Signature 

Dan

Worshipful Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
Weymouth United Masonic Lodge A.F.& A.M. - Weymouth, MA
32° Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Boston
Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine, Aleppo Temple

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 September 2010 11:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
Newcomer
Rank
Total Posts:  9
Joined  2010-09-16

enlighten you? to what? some sort of historical truth i discovered? is there such a thing as historical truth? history is called his-story for a reason. it’s someone else’s perception of the events at the time. what do we really know about a dead man’s perspective? history is hearsay, without any witnesses left. a bunch of stories told to eager ears grasping for something they already have. i have come to my conclusions as a result of my own personal experiences throughout my entire life. my perception of things cannot be your own. one man’s joy is another’s pain. i couldn’t explain to you how i see things any more than you could explain to me how you do. and to pass on my perceptions as facts, when i was not there personally, would be folly, would it not?

 Signature 

“What luck for leaders, that men do not think”—Adolf Hitler

“The lips of wisdom are sealed, except to the ears of understanding”

“Where falls the footsteps of the Master, the ears of those ready for his Teaching open   wide.”

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 September 2010 11:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
Moderator
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3301
Joined  2007-09-27

Let me rephrase.

You said you learned how we got our “bad reputation”.  To me that means that you didn’t come to it on your own, but as you said, you “learned it”.  Surely you can share with us what you learned.

I’m aware of several reasons why some people are against masonry, but I’m curious as to what you claim to have learned.  I’m not asking for any other reason than that I’m curious about different perceptions of Masonry.  What is it that you learned?

Honestly, I’m aware of many reasons.  Some are religious misconceptions or different interpretations of the bible, some are based on certain organizations cliaming Masonry to be sinful, and other are from scorned political adversaries during the 1800s.  Can you add what you’ve learned to the list, or is it in one of the above categories?

 Signature 

Dan

Worshipful Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
Weymouth United Masonic Lodge A.F.& A.M. - Weymouth, MA
32° Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Boston
Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine, Aleppo Temple

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 September 2010 03:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
Administrator
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  767
Joined  2007-03-18

To Sovereigntylost and others on this thread.

I thought I would make a quick comment.

We have had a lot of good discussions on this topic—and I think it’s an important one—so I’m going to leave it open for the time being.

At the same time, I saw the Sovereigntylost indicated in another thread that he was a “freeman.” Although there are many definitions for this word, one of them is attached to a group who’s stated purpose appears to be to “expose the hidden occult underpinnings” of different groups, and I have seen references that indicate that one of their targets is now the Freemasons.

I certainly hope that is not the case here. But based on some of the questions, there does seem to be some similarities in language to the rhetoric used by that group.

In any event, as Dan said, trustworthiness is one of the most important tenets of Freemasonry. So in that regard, I would prefer to keep questions on this thread as straightforward as possible.

Thanks,

Bob Heruska
Forum Administrator

 Signature 

Bob Heruska
Past Master
Columbian Lodge
Boston, MA

Member of the York Rite, Scottish Rite, and the Mystic Shrine.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 September 2010 04:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
Newcomer
Rank
Total Posts:  9
Joined  2010-09-16

i am not a conspiracy theorist. haha. i am a curious man trying to find my resonance. i wish no harm to any man or any organization for that matter. just have some unanswered questions and am fueling my curiosity. fact is, i have graciously declined my three requests to go petition. i am not sure what i want, but am looking. exploring my options. many of which have conflicting views only by the noobs. the seasoned have no qualms against you. the only reason you are mentioned by either the freeman movement or the sovereignty movement, is because most people are led to the movement via people like alex jones and glenn beck or michael savage. fact is, they peddle fear and anger, promoting violence, and i am 110% against any form of violence or controversy. i believe in peace and unconditional love for my brothers. and in no way do i have any intentions of dishonoring any of you. i see things the way i see them because thats the way i see them. i make my decisions based on facts, not rumor and conjecture. i am very seriously considering petitioning. however, i still have a few questions i would like to have answered. i used the term “Freeman” for lack of a better word. i am self governing, yes, but not a party to any movement. i follow no one, nor do i lead, i only walk with what/who i call god. at this point, i am here to learn. if i make mistakes, feel free to point them out. you will find that i am open to speak on just about anything, but my opinions are just that. my opinions. i do not judge a man by the company he keeps, rather by the manner in which he conducts/carries himself. i expect the same in return. i am here in peace. anything you would like to know about me or my intentions, feel free to ask. as i said, i am here to learn. if i already knew everything about you guys, i wouldn’t be here. and i shouldn’t expect you to know much about me either.

 Signature 

“What luck for leaders, that men do not think”—Adolf Hitler

“The lips of wisdom are sealed, except to the ears of understanding”

“Where falls the footsteps of the Master, the ears of those ready for his Teaching open   wide.”

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 September 2010 03:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  104
Joined  2010-01-04

When i decided i might be interested in freemasonry i did not say “I want to join Freemasonry” first then research it. I asked “Is it for me?”  I then spend 3 months researching it on the internet and reading books. The good, the bad and the utterly silly sites. Then i talked to the local lodge officers over one of their weekly breakfasts. While my petition was being investigated i kept researching digging deeper. Over all it took about 6 months from my own investigation till i took my 1st degree. I hit topics like:
What is Freemasonry?
Principles it teaches and stands for.
I’d read anti-FM sites and their opinions. Some made me laugh hard. They were just mad people pointing fingers and yelling.
What were some charities Freemasonry was involved in.
Were some of the people like David Icke on to something one way or the other? [only after we genetically modify pigs with avian implants.]
Over all i’d say i spent about the same time on pro-neutral-and anti sites and material. The one Anti web site i read that stuck in my mind was ones that Albert pike kept being quoted in. So i went looking to see if there were any counter for it. Seems back in the day lucifer meant light and a few connect the dots later the older meanings of things were used and even the source of the contaminations were easily traceable. Which leads into about an hour lecture on meanings and usaged of current and older meanings.

Long post boiled down…

“in fact, it is my understanding that the order gains much more from what I bring to the table. i would like someone’s opinion on this please.”
1>Your are correct. Thats my opinion. And only you can decide if its right for you. “Making good men better.” Is this you?

“am very seriously considering petitioning. however, i still have a few questions i would like to have answered.”
2>What questions?

“Bad reputation”
3>Like Dan asked. What or “Which” Bad reputation have you heard. I read a lot of ones in my research. 3 or 4 were “bad” but only 2 were reputation worthy. The first being what goes on in the rituals is [not] satanic some how. The other is the morgan affair. And to that end I’ve read sites and books that said he was dropped off in Canada, and others said hes in a lake bottom. Some sources claim to offer historical documents. Problem is both outcomes had “proof”.

My advice is to do what i did. Call up the lodge or grand lodge, I did both. Find out if the brothers meet informally like over breakfast. And have a talk with them. Since i don’t know what state your in or whats on your record [And i’m not asking.] I can not research answers to your first question about ex-offenders. Hope this was some help.

 Signature 

http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/journal/australian-geographic-to-screen-lost-moonwalk-footage.htm
Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin with the US flag on the surface of the Moon (Neil Armstrong was not a Mason. Buzz Aldrin, however, is a 33rd degree Scottish Rite Mason, a Masonic Knight Templar, and a Shriner.).

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 January 2011 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
Newcomer
Rank
Total Posts:  9
Joined  2010-04-23

I understand that it is generaly not appropriate to accept someone with a feloy into the brotherhood.  I think it is a cop out.  Our founding fathers were all felons by commiting treason against the crown.  Many whom were Freemasons.  Look at Bro Ben franklin, he was not the most moral of sorts.  felon or not, a brother who has never recieved a speeding ticket in his life can stab you in the back when it comes to a matter of trust, just as easily if not more than someone who has been labeled a felon.  Many ex-offenders could offer much to Masonry, I would certainly never black ball someone based on a criminal record.  I would want to hear what the person is doing now in there life, and how they have put the past behind, and would like to learn a even better way how to live through the building tools of Masonry

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 January 2011 03:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
Moderator
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3301
Joined  2007-09-27
humbleseeker - 29 January 2011 03:33 PM

I understand that it is generaly not appropriate to accept someone with a feloy into the brotherhood.  I think it is a cop out.  Our founding fathers were all felons by commiting treason against the crown.  Many whom were Freemasons.  Look at Bro Ben franklin, he was not the most moral of sorts.  felon or not, a brother who has never recieved a speeding ticket in his life can stab you in the back when it comes to a matter of trust, just as easily if not more than someone who has been labeled a felon.  Many ex-offenders could offer much to Masonry, I would certainly never black ball someone based on a criminal record.  I would want to hear what the person is doing now in there life, and how they have put the past behind, and would like to learn a even better way how to live through the building tools of Masonry

This isn’t a blanket rule.  Some lodges have rules against it in the bylaws and some do not.  I agree that each case should be considered individually, and that is what we would do in our lodge.  Other lodges may behave differently.

I think certain crimes are different than others when considering this.  My biggest concern would be men who had committed crimes against trust, such as theft and fraud.  I’m sure you can understand why and I’m sure you see that “crimes” of our forefathers are quite different than theft or fraud.

 Signature 

Dan

Worshipful Master, Columbian Lodge A.F.&A.M. - Boston, MA
Weymouth United Masonic Lodge A.F.& A.M. - Weymouth, MA
32° Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Boston
Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine, Aleppo Temple

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 January 2011 11:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  104
Joined  2010-01-04

They “Stole” an entire country.

 Signature 

http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/journal/australian-geographic-to-screen-lost-moonwalk-footage.htm
Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin with the US flag on the surface of the Moon (Neil Armstrong was not a Mason. Buzz Aldrin, however, is a 33rd degree Scottish Rite Mason, a Masonic Knight Templar, and a Shriner.).

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 January 2011 01:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
Administrator
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  767
Joined  2007-03-18

Hello all.

This has become an interesting thread.

And as much as I think it would be a great topic, I would like point out that this is not really a place designed to have a discussion between Masons about what should or shouldn’t happen in a Lodge. Freemasonry is a Fraternity. It is one of laws of our Fraternity that a new member must show that he is of “good moral character.”

It is also a law that every lodge—and every member—has a right to refuse membership or even blackball someone if they do not feel an applicant meets the stated qualifications for membership. Period. That’s why we have an investigation. As brother Dan mentioned, we’ve heard that some Lodges even have it in their bylaws that a felony conviction will preclude membership, thereby giving definition to what that Lodge means by showing good character. 

I will say that one of the reasons that Freemasonry has survived so long is that we have refrained from getting into the rehabilitation game. We’ve left that to the states.

But even state rehabilitation is not total forgiveness. A person who has been convicted of a felony cannot ever hold most public offices or become President in this country. That person has also lost his right to bear arms. It seems to me that Society is saying that, at least in some way, that someone with a Felony may be rehabilitated, but cannot be completely trusted in the future. Whether that’s right or wrong, a person who has a felony conviction has lost some rights that others have.

Freemasonry, for the most part, does not have this type of rule. These decisions are left up to the individual Lodges and the Masons in those Lodges.  That’s why I would encourage anyone who desires to become a Mason who can show that he is of good moral character – by however means he can show it – to simply apply and be open and honest with the investigating committee, your sponsor, and the Master of the Lodge.

At the same time, you would need to be prepared that someone in the Lodge might feel that if a state or government felt you could no longer be trusted enough hold public office, they might feel you should not become a Freemason in their Lodge. And that would be their prerogative. Right or wrong.

Freemasonry has some rules. There are men who do great good in this world who do not believe in God. There are men who do great good who cannot show they are of good moral character.  They just don’t do it as Freemasons. There are plenty of other organizations out there that don’t have these laws. Freemasonry isn’t for everyone.

As for the idea that our forefathers were traitors and/or “stole” a county. I think there is amble evidence in the Declaration that says otherwise. At the same time, as they said in writing, they certainly would have all been hung had the revolution failed. But had they not been hung, and had been convicted as traitors, those that were not Masons would probably not have been allowed to become Masons – having had a felony on their record.

Bob Heruska
Forum Administrator

 Signature 

Bob Heruska
Past Master
Columbian Lodge
Boston, MA

Member of the York Rite, Scottish Rite, and the Mystic Shrine.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 January 2011 08:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  104
Joined  2010-01-04

True for the most part. The britts would consider it stealing, while the patriots would consider it liberation.

However i would like to point out that comroderie, patriotism, having served in wartime “buddies” would more then likely get you a blind eye turned to joining a lodge of fellows who were brothers in arms. If lodges were allowed to exist with out some form of regulation. Lodges were used in planning many revolutionary events. Knowing the character the applicant can help. HOWEVER. This is all speculation and not relevant to today. And the more i type and think on it i’m not really sure.

What is relevant is standards. Some lodges specify some do not. Rather then repeat what Bob above stated and well i might add, i’ll say this.

I run a world of warcraft guild of 234 members as of last night. Its been higher, its been lower. However your managing people. Your also wearing a tag that floats above your head.
<NAME> then
<GUILD NAME>

There are chat channels some span vast areas. You act like an idiot in the chat or steal items you get named quick on a server of players. People shift click your name and it shows your guild. People now associate your guild with your behavior. If you act bad. It makes your guild look bad. So if you act bad in the real world, would it not stand to say that if people knew you were a Freemason It might also make the fraternity bad?

 Signature 

http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/journal/australian-geographic-to-screen-lost-moonwalk-footage.htm
Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin with the US flag on the surface of the Moon (Neil Armstrong was not a Mason. Buzz Aldrin, however, is a 33rd degree Scottish Rite Mason, a Masonic Knight Templar, and a Shriner.).

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 February 2011 10:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
Newcomer
Rank
Total Posts:  10
Joined  2011-01-30
sovereigntylost - 17 September 2010 11:02 AM

enlighten you? to what? some sort of historical truth i discovered?

I for one am still waiting for an answer as to “how you learned” how the Masons got their “bad rep”..

How did you learn this, and what is the bad reputation?

Do you have answers for these questions?

Thanks!

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 2
1
 
‹‹ Questions      Fellow Craft ››

© 2007 - 2011 The Grand Lodge of Masons in Massachusetts.

Page rendered in 0.8103 seconds.