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Freemasons misunderstood?
Posted: 08 June 2014 05:29 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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Over the past few months I have come to the understanding that the motives of the Freemasons are widely misunderstood. In fact I have learned that the Freemasons share the same ideology as I do. Freedom, equality, religious freedom, charity, and order are ideas that we share in common. 

The question I have is… If the Freemasons wish to see a free humanity one day, why not share your ideas more openly with humanity? Why not push more openly for these ideas?

I believe that this may be where our ideas are different. Where masons keep their works shrouded in secrecy and mystery. I wish to openly share these ideas with the rest of humanity.

In advance, I wish to thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask questions, and also for taking time answering questions I have had in the past (especially the harder ones). Also thank you for your patience with me and thanks for not banning me from this forum a few months ago. Hope to hear back soon!

Thanks,
R. Niles.

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Posted: 08 June 2014 08:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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A fair question.

I would start by challenging the assumption that our purpose is to make the world free. We try to make the world a better place by making ourselves better men. Better men will almost always, it’s true, favour freedom, but I doubt there are many Masons who think they can free the world. All we can do is to each work on our little piece of it.

As to your question, I suppose one could say that there are in reality very few real secrets and haven’t been for a long, long time. While true, that rather dodges the gist of your inquiry.

A large part of it, speaking only for myself, is that the lessons we teach are effective because they are done in a particular way, in a particular order and reinforced by the presence of like-minded men. If i showed you a transcript of the ceremonies, I suspect you would find them curiously bland and pointless. Delivered in the right way, they are powerful moral tools, but posting them on the web (for instance) would not do anybody much good.

Further, to become a doctor requires more than a book of anatomy; to become a philosopher takes more than skimming through Philosophy for Dummies. It takes much study and effort, guided by those who have already been through the experience. Similarly, just seeing a Masonic ceremony would not bring much to the witness. Indeed, we tell new members that they will not really start to understand and appreciate the experience until they have witnessed it a few times from the sidelines.

Hope that helps.

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Posted: 08 June 2014 08:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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R.Niles1124 - 08 June 2014 05:29 PM

Over the past few months I have come to the understanding that the motives of the Freemasons are widely misunderstood. In fact I have learned that the Freemasons share the same ideology as I do. Freedom, equality, religious freedom, charity, and order are ideas that we share in common. 

The question I have is… If the Freemasons wish to see a free humanity one day, why not share your ideas more openly with humanity? Why not push more openly for these ideas?

I believe that this may be where our ideas are different. Where masons keep their works shrouded in secrecy and mystery. I wish to openly share these ideas with the rest of humanity.

In advance, I wish to thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask questions, and also for taking time answering questions I have had in the past (especially the harder ones). Also thank you for your patience with me and thanks for not banning me from this forum a few months ago. Hope to hear back soon!

Thanks,
R. Niles.

Freemasonry seeks to help men improve themselves. We work to improve the human condition through Faith, Charity and by being an example of how a good man lives his life.

We know that there are many good men who will never become Masons and that’s fine with us and we hope, them.

We actually keep very few things private, only the details of our Rituals and our Means of Recognition. The reasons for these have been explained innumerable times on this forum, but put simply our Rituals are time-tested teaching tools that work best when they are a surprise and the means of recognition are the way we know a person to be a Mason.

The lessons we teach are simple and pure. They are the same lessons taught in Church, Temple and Mosque.

We don’t invite men to join. We insist that they ask because they need to feel ready to embark on this wonderful journey of self discovery and improvement. Asking is the first and most difficult step a man must take to begin in Freemasonry. It takes courage, prayer and self examination. These are the fundamentals of being a Mason and a man asking shows us he, at least, feels he is ready to become our brother.

For a group who tries to keep themselves secret, we are doing a terrible job. You found out quite a bit :) In fact, the first “Freemasonry Exposed!” book was published in 1723, six years after the first Grand Lodge was formed. There have been a steady stream of “exposures” ever since. Most of them are laughable to Masons.

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Posted: 08 June 2014 11:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Bob, I said one day see a free humanity, not make the world free. But since you insist, I can see that u know what i was starting to get at. You see, I’m glad you understand that your “fraternity” is MUCH greater than one man. I understand this as well.

if you do not wish to have freedom for non masons, how can you wish these things for your own selves?
Is that it?... Do you Masons truly only wish these things for your own selves?

Is that why when you become a Mason you become a “better man”, do you think you are better than non masons?

Is that why you get so, offended when non masons call you brother?
I believe that all men are brothers in the eyes of the Great Spirit,
can you say the same masons?. 

Your words sound good to my ears. Your good works give good sights to my eyes. But your odor stinks of mystery, and darkness.
I feel that you are hiding something from me (not accusing, just being honest). The answers you give me have lead me to more questions.

I am sorry if I come off offensive, for it is not my intent.
Nor am I trying to make any accusations against you, I’m simply looking for answers that will determine whether masonry is for me or not?

Thank you for your time.

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Posted: 09 June 2014 01:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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I’ve only a couple of minutes to reply at this point (I’ve got to get my boys ready for school), but I personally don’t have a problem with you calling me ‘brother’; I would if you called me ‘Brother’ - the difference being in the ‘b/B’ as the former just refers to us both being members of the human race and brothers in that sense.  The latter however, is the term used when referring to a fellow member of the fraternity .. it’s sort of a title - like Mr Niles .. Brother George.  I’m sure you’d be upset (not necessarily the right word, but you know what I mean) if I were to refer to you as ‘Master Niles’ .. meaning ‘the boy/lad Niles’ - rather than Mr Niles - meaning the adult.

Understand?

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Posted: 09 June 2014 02:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Let me put it this way, Until you have walked the same beginning path as those of us who are Masons, you will never comprehend our lessons.
There are similar initiatic paths that teach valuable lessons but none nearly as effectively as Freemasonry.

Searching for Light {knowledge} is a laudable pursuit for any person and should always be encouraged.
The free mind makes a free man.

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Posted: 09 June 2014 07:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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The first signer of my petition was a fairly close friend of mine before we became Brothers in the fraternity. He was the first to admonish me for wearing my Step Fathers ring after he died
and also after I called him Brother once when I saw him out. It took a while for me to understand, but once you go through the rigors of catechism 3-4 nights a week and go through the degrees you begin to realize the effort required and why you have to EARN the right to be called brother and wear the S&C.

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Posted: 09 June 2014 08:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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if you do not wish to have freedom for non masons, how can you wish these things for your own selves? Is that it?... Do you Masons truly only wish these things for your own selves?

???

When did I ever say we do not wish freedom for non-Masons? What I sad was that it is not our purpose to free the world. (Or, as you put it, a free humanity). All members of a current events discussion club may wish for every person to be free, but the purpose of the group is to talk about the news.

Our purpose is to make ourselves better men. It is our belief and hope that the bit of the world each of us touches can be improved as each of us improves. We also believe that all individuals should have the right to freedom, but that is not the purpose of the Craft.

Is that why when you become a Mason you become a “better man”, do you think you are better than non masons?

You are seem to be saying that as if it is a fact that we think we are better than non-Masons and that is anything but true.

The only person a Mason is in competition with (at least on this level) is himself. There are certain minimum standards of behaviour on which we insist, but those are no different than those expressed by any major religion. A Mason tries to improve himself compared to what he was when he joined, what he was last week, what he was yesterday.

Is that why you get so, offended when non masons call you brother? I believe that all men are brothers in the eyes of the Great Spirit, can you say the same masons?. 

Who says we get offended by that? Where are you coming up with these claims?  I have been called ‘brother’ on a number of occasions by people who were a) not womb-mates and b) not Masons. I frankly feel good about that, feeling that the person feels good about me. The only time I would get upset by a non-Mason calling me that is if it was in an attempt to pass himself off as a Mason.

Your words sound good to my ears. Your good works give good sights to my eyes. But your odor stinks of mystery, and darkness. I feel that you are hiding something from me (not accusing, just being honest). The answers you give me have lead me to more questions.

I suspect that there’s little we can do to convince you it’s otherwise. Looking at the statements on this forum, in this thread and others, I have seen no Mason having lied to anybody. True, there are things I might have stated differently, but that’s just personal opinion and phrasing.

The truth is in front of you. It’s up to you to decide.

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Posted: 09 June 2014 08:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Richard George - 09 June 2014 08:50 AM

.. or just plain common decency for that matter!

Just so.

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Posted: 09 June 2014 08:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Lark - 09 June 2014 08:45 AM

There are certain minimum standards of behaviour on which we insist, but those are no different than those expressed by any major religion.

.. or just plain common decency for that matter!

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Posted: 09 June 2014 11:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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R.Niles1124 - 08 June 2014 11:40 PM

Is that why you get so, offended when non masons call you brother?
I believe that all men are brothers in the eyes of the Great Spirit,
can you say the same masons?.

In that respect, yes we are all brothers.  However as Brother Richard states above, a non-mason calling a Mason Brother, is simply a matter of bad etiquette. 

R.Niles1124 - 08 June 2014 11:40 PM

Your words sound good to my ears. Your good works give good sights to my eyes. But your odor stinks of mystery, and darkness.
I feel that you are hiding something from me (not accusing, just being honest). The answers you give me have lead me to more questions.

What exactly is it that you feel is being “hidden” from you?  You, as a non mason, will not be told the means of recognition and the details of our ceremonies.  These are things we have sworn to keep private.  Before you jump up and down and claim a-ha, these are NOT, anything of earth shattering importance.  You are more than free to search for them on your own, a Mason will not tell you where to look for them.  If you find them, jolly good for you, it won’t “get” you anything.

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Posted: 09 June 2014 12:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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You say you don’t mind if I call u my brother, yet when I called u that before one of you told me “do no refer to us masons as my brother, I am not your brother”. That is where I get the idea that you get offended by that. I am not just making this up look at my previous questions and u will see.

Not a FACT that you think u are better than non masons. I just got that idea because you say that when u become a mason you become a better man. Ifso facto, that leads me to believe that you think u are better than non masons. It’s pretty self explanatory if you ask me.

Like I said Paul, your answers have lead me to more questions than answers. If I had any idea what you are hiding I would not be asking questions.

What I do know is that men do not meet in secret to discuss Mickey Mouse. I am not under the impression that the masons are just a group of geeks who keep secrets for fun.  And most of all, normal average people do not meet in secret to do “rituals”.  Most religious people who do rituals do them out in the open (Except for maybe like Satanist or something.)  If a non mason wouldn’t know what the rituals mean, I really don’t think they would have to be done in secret. Most of the symbology in the rituals would probably go over most non masons head anyhow right? So, to be honest I don’t think I can buy into that excuse. However, I may be convinced otherwise in exchange for your time and patience. I would ask yet again that if I am misunderstanding to be corrected.

Thanks,
R. N.

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Posted: 09 June 2014 01:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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R.Niles1124 - 09 June 2014 12:50 PM

Like I said Paul, your answers have lead me to more questions than answers. If I had any idea what you are hiding I would not be asking questions.

In these few words you lay out your problem and it is YOUR problem not ours. You are not asking questions with an open mind receptive to answers about Freemasonry, you are asking thinking you’re going to catch someone out, which is frankly quite sad.

R.Niles1124 - 09 June 2014 12:50 PM

What I do know is that men do not meet in secret to discuss Mickey Mouse.

Freemasons do not meet in secret! We do, in common with most membership based social groups, hold meetings that are members only.

R.Niles1124 - 09 June 2014 12:50 PM

I am not under the impression that the masons are just a group of geeks who keep secrets for fun.  And most of all, normal average people do not meet in secret to do “rituals”.  Most religious people who do rituals do them out in the open (Except for maybe like Satanist or something.)  If a non mason wouldn’t know what the rituals mean, I really don’t think they would have to be done in secret. Most of the symbology in the rituals would probably go over most non masons head anyhow right? So, to be honest I don’t think I can buy into that excuse. However, I may be convinced otherwise in exchange for your time and patience. I would ask yet again that if I am misunderstanding to be corrected.

What on earth makes you believe that anyone here is trying to “convince” you of anything?? You have come here as a non-Mason asking questions about the Fraternity that we are members of and also other non-related subjects and we have just answered your questions.

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Posted: 09 June 2014 01:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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R.Niles1124 - 09 June 2014 12:50 PM

You say you don’t mind if I call u my brother, yet when I called u that before one of you told me “do no refer to us masons as my brother, I am not your brother”. That is where I get the idea that you get offended by that. I am not just making this up look at my previous questions and u will see.

My best friend (not a Mason) and I went through a very nasty time together overseas. He kept me alive. I think of him as my brother and will never mind if he calls me such. Pay attention to this now - he never refers to me as, “Brother,” the way another Mason does. The difference is subtle, but it is real. The one is a bond of friendship and love, the other is a formal title.

.

R.Niles1124 - 09 June 2014 12:50 PM

Not a FACT that you think u are better than non masons. I just got that idea because you say that when u become a mason you become a better man. Ifso facto, that leads me to believe that you think u are better than non masons. It’s pretty self explanatory if you ask me.

I thought I was pretty clear. It’s not about becoming better than anybody else. A Mason becomes ‘better’ in terms of what he would have been without having experienced and learned the moral elements of Freemasonry. In this sense, a Mason is only competing against himself. I’m not sure how I can say that more simply or clearly.

.

R.Niles1124 - 09 June 2014 12:50 PM

Like I said Paul, your answers have lead me to more questions than answers.

My friend, any good discussion leads to more questions.

So far, from my point of view, you have had every question answered openly, fully and truthfully. Whether or not you choose to accept those answers is entirely and completely up to you.

.

R.Niles1124 - 09 June 2014 12:50 PM

If I had any idea what you are hiding I would not be asking questions.

What I do know is that men do not meet in secret to discuss Mickey Mouse. I am not under the impression that the masons are just a group of geeks who keep secrets for fun.  And most of all, normal average people do not meet in secret to do “rituals”.  Most religious people who do rituals do them out in the open (Except for maybe like Satanist or something.)  If a non mason wouldn’t know what the rituals mean, I really don’t think they would have to be done in secret. Most of the symbology in the rituals would probably go over most non masons head anyhow right? So, to be honest I don’t think I can buy into that excuse.

Without trying to offend, I think your problem is becoming clearer. You assume that we are hiding some major secret, that what you have been told is just an excuse (your words). That’s where you are starting from, the base on which your understanding and beliefs are built, the point from which your questions originate.

Consider that there are lots of organizations and groups which do not permit outsiders into their meetings. Corporation boards of directors, for instance, commonly meet behind closed doors.

If it is the word ‘ritual’ which worries you, consider them as simple plays carrying a moral message.

An on-line dictionary defines ‘ritual’ as, a religious or solemn ceremony consisting of a series of actions performed according to a prescribed order.

Our ceremonies are religious, to the extent that there are prayers (the same as city council meetings, PTA groups, etc). They are solemn, not to be conducted in a frivolous fashion. They are certainly carried out according to a prescribed order; as noted elsewhere, that is a time-tested way of ensuring their effectiveness at bringing across the moral message they contain.

We believe that our teachings work best when done the way that hundreds of years of practical experience in virtually every country in the world has shown to be effective. That involves small groups of men vice loudspeakers to crowds or websites to the masses. We tend to be selective as to who we share our teachings with and that’s our privilege.


You do not have to accept any of this. That’s fine. You are certainly not the first and won’t be the last.

You can believe what you have been told or discount it because your core belief is that we are lying and covering up. Your call, either way.

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Zetland Lodge No. 83
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Posted: 09 June 2014 01:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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R.Niles1124 - 09 June 2014 12:50 PM

You say you don’t mind if I call u my brother, yet when I called u that before one of you told me “do no refer to us masons as my brother, I am not your brother”. That is where I get the idea that you get offended by that. I am not just making this up look at my previous questions and u will see.

Not a FACT that you think u are better than non masons. I just got that idea because you say that when u become a mason you become a better man. Ifso facto, that leads me to believe that you think u are better than non masons. It’s pretty self explanatory if you ask me.

Like I said Paul, your answers have lead me to more questions than answers. If I had any idea what you are hiding I would not be asking questions.

What I do know is that men do not meet in secret to discuss Mickey Mouse. I am not under the impression that the masons are just a group of geeks who keep secrets for fun.  And most of all, normal average people do not meet in secret to do “rituals”.  Most religious people who do rituals do them out in the open (Except for maybe like Satanist or something.)  If a non mason wouldn’t know what the rituals mean, I really don’t think they would have to be done in secret. Most of the symbology in the rituals would probably go over most non masons head anyhow right?So, to be honest I don’t think I can buy into that excuse. However, I may be convinced otherwise in exchange for your time and patience.

I think what you are caught up in is the misconception that ritual is something nefarious and the conspiracy theory that we hold some sort of secret knowledge or plan to take over the world.  All three of those are outright laughable.  Ritual is simply something done the same same way each time.  If you are like most other humans, you get up in the morning, shower, shave, eat breakfast and head off to work/school, or other activity.  HMMMM, seems to resemble a pattern, could it be a ritual?  I think so. 

We also do not meet in secret, privately yes, no different than the Board of Directors meeting of Coca Cola or Microsoft.  Meeting times are publicly available.  My lodge meets the 2nd and 4th Thursday of every month from September through May.  Hors d’oeuvres are from 5:45-6:30, Dinner with dessert from 6:30-7:30 and the meeting is from 7:30 until we finish.  What we discuss ranges from paying the bills, voting on new members, voting to remove members who are grossly delinquent in paying their dues or other reason, modifying our by laws to accommodate a new committee or purpose that the lodge deems worthwhile, discussing whether or not we should donate money to group ABC to help them pay for some improvement.  We are trying to incorporate some type of education aspect into our meetings.  One thing we are going to be discussing in the coming year is Masonry during the Civil War.  We may also delve into the further meaning of the different symbols found within the fraternity.  Our ritual is based on customs from the ancient craft guilds of Europe.  During this time, most people were illiterate so teaching was done in the form of allegory.  If you go back to Biblical times, Jesus taught in the same way, except the term used there is parable. 

As for the symbolism going over the head of nonmasons, that is probably true because without the same shared experience, there is no common starting point or frame of reference.  The lessons taught in the 3 degrees are no different than those you learn at school, church or at home, it is the method that we have promised to reveal to anyone except a fellow mason.  Let’s face it, if you cannot be trusted with something as insignificant as a word or phrase, how can you be trusted with more meaningful things.  This concept has been stated by well known masonic authors S. Brent Morris and Chris Hodapp in their respective books and on the many documentaries found on the History and Discovery Channels.

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Posted: 09 June 2014 02:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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R.Niles1124 - 09 June 2014 12:50 PM

Not a FACT that you think u are better than non masons. I just got that idea because you say that when u become a mason you become a better man. Ifso facto, that leads me to believe that you think u are better than non masons. It’s pretty self explanatory if you ask me.

We say when we become a Mason, we begin to TRY to improve ourselves, to become better men.  We do not BECOME a better man simply by going through the degrees.  The goal of our members is to try to be better men than WE WERE, not better men that OTHERS ARE.

Therefore, IPSO fatco, we think nothing of the sort.

I go to the dentist because I want cleaner teeth than I had before, not because I want cleaner teeth than YOU.  :)

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